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Forum Boards => Kit Building => Topic started by: Opa George on October 14, 2019, 08:05:32 PM

Title: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 14, 2019, 08:05:32 PM
I noted in another post that the new FOS kit, Rust Rock Falls, just arrived.  I plan to build and site that on a rocky outcrop next to the FOS kit Bandits Roost.  As Rust Rock Falls is a Christmas gift from my wife, it has gone into hiding until December 25. So lets begin with Bandit's Roost.

Bandit's Roost is a massive kit, released two years ago.  I missed the original release but was fortunate to find an unopened kit online for just about the original selling price. Below is the box and front label:
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-141019195046.jpeg)

I unpacked it and laid out all of the box contents on my workbench for a quick inventory.  Had to back up a bit for a photo:
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-141019195121.jpeg)

My start is somewhat less than glamorous.  The instructions start with Vallon Paint and the adjoining Burger Joint, two basic structures. As with my last FOS super kit, I took my time to locate (and label in pencil) the main walls for each building.  Vallon Paint was relatively easy--the walls are distinctive and easy to locate.  However it took me about 20 minutes to locate the walls for the burger joint. 

The instructions identified the foundation and the wall that adjoins the paint structure, but did not identify the other three walls.  Knowing that they will be covered in corrugated siding, I knew they would not be wood.  I finally located them as one continuous piece on the taskboard (cardboard) sheets.  Below are all of the main walls for the first two buildings ready to begin:
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-141019195202.jpeg)

Sorry, that is as far as I got this evening.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on October 14, 2019, 08:36:26 PM
I'll definitely be following the build George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Dave K. on October 14, 2019, 08:41:48 PM
Happily following!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on October 14, 2019, 08:55:05 PM
George,

Count me in, too!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: DennisBourey on October 14, 2019, 09:28:33 PM
Same here George!!!!!..Dennis
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on October 14, 2019, 10:13:53 PM
Wow, That's going to be quite the structure build Opa George.  I can't wait to see what you can do with it.  Your last build "The Terminal" was pretty cool.

 ;D ;D :o
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Janbouli on October 15, 2019, 03:29:24 AM
Following along
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 15, 2019, 05:09:31 AM
Curt, Dave, Jerry, Dennis, Bruce & Jan--very happy to have all of you along for the adventure. Please chime in with tips along the way. I haven't seen this particular kit covered in any detailed build threads yet, so I may need some guidance here or there.
Have a happy day!
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: rpdylan on October 15, 2019, 05:48:50 AM
this is so great that you are posting your build on this kit! I'm starting mine this winter to fit into one of my back corners of the layout. Any tips/ issues that you encounter and share with us will be greatly appreciated! Do you plan on following the prototype regarding the structure placement/ elevations? I will on mine as it looks like it will be complimentary to a back corner. 
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ReadingBob on October 15, 2019, 07:48:15 AM
Got my popcorn in hand and I've been relegated to the second row to watch this one since the front row is already full.   ;)  :D

I  really like the look of this kit.  There's a lot of visual interest.  I can't wait to see what you do with it.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: madharry on October 15, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
I have this one to do sometime. So I am very interested how you will go on. Good modelling!
Mike
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jimmillho on October 15, 2019, 11:12:00 AM
I am sitting back here in the second row with Bob.

Jim
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: DennisBourey on October 15, 2019, 11:13:43 AM
I'm Ready :)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 15, 2019, 11:41:45 AM
Welcome Bob B., Mike and Jim!   Dennis--you are indeed ready to go.
Bob C, I do plan on building it very close to the pilot model plans. If anything, I may alter the elevations to increase or stretch them out a bit so that it sites better with Rust Rock Falls, which has more extreme elevation changes.  But other than that, because I like the narrow-crooked street layout so much, I intend to keep it a lot like Doug Foscale designed it.

Early on in the thread I will post some pics of my intended site on my layout.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: S&S RR on October 15, 2019, 03:51:59 PM
George


I will be following along - looks like I'm late to the party - balcony seating for me.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: GPdemayo on October 15, 2019, 05:25:52 PM
I'll be in the 2nd row with Bob & Jim watching this massive kit build George..... :)


Hope they haven't eaten all the popcorn..... :o
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Dave K. on October 15, 2019, 06:39:04 PM
Who needs two!?
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: DennisBourey on October 15, 2019, 06:49:26 PM
I'll be happy with one. ;)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 15, 2019, 07:51:54 PM
Welcome and happy to have you, John and Greg. A bit of a popcorn scuffle developing. I may have to order in some snacks.

This  is the end of my layout where both Bandits Roost and the Rust Rock Falls kits will live, once installed.  It is roughly six by four feet, double-tracked on the bottom (the outside third track is a siding) and single tracked on the top return loop.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-151019192955.jpeg)

Here is the same real estate from the opposite side (my layout is a walk-around).  All of the structures are movable--just sitting in place for now.  Most of the area is bare plywood. As both of the super kits feature water (canal, stream, waterfalls) and the bottom return loops are "in the way," I am planning on super elevating the new kits and run the return loops underneath. 
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-151019193047.jpeg)

There is a nice deep corner, more than 18 inches deep, that will accommodate the really dramatic waterfall of Rust Rock Falls.

Anyway, that is the plan.  Next post will be back to actual kit construction.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 15, 2019, 08:06:53 PM
I vary only slightly from the kit instructions by distressing the walls before bracing.  I like to have them very flat to better line up on the cutting mat grid.  My order of distressing is:  ponce wheel for nail holes, followed by brushing with a file card to provide subtle wood grain, then heavier brushing with a welding brush, and finally lifting of boards using a razor knife (fresh blade, please!).
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-151019193137.jpeg)

I apply the heaviest graining around the edges, near the roof peaks and in corners. The wall below will have the bottom half covered by the adjoining wall of the burger joint, so I did not spend any time working on the bottom half.  (Apologies for the terribly overexposed photos--should not have used the flash)
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-151019193230.jpeg)

All of the paint shop walls are braced and clamped with clothes pins to dry overnight. Tomorrow I will use a base of A&I and add paint.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-151019193316.jpeg)

I used one fifth of the supplied 1/8th square bracing just on these four walls.  I think even judicious use of the supplied bracing will come up short.  Luckily I picked up an extra supply of that size at the craft store, so be aware you will need more.
Below is the foundation of the burger joint, with bracing aligned behind the scribe line to accommodate the walls.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-151019193358.jpeg)

All for this evening! Have a great night. (I'll improve my photography for next installment). :)
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on October 15, 2019, 09:49:51 PM
George,

Your location and plan should work out very well and do a great job of showcasing these beautiful kits.  Looks like you're off to a good start.  I find almost every kit I build requires more bracing that what is supplied with the kit.  Of course, I am pretty obsessive about using lots of bracing.  IMO better too much than too little!  Really glad I have a front row seat for this thread.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on October 16, 2019, 12:10:24 AM
I'll be watching.

I got a bit super excited with the idea of exaggerating the slope a bit, saw a potential change straight away and had to do a quick sketch to see how it would look.  Its a bit more work but food for thought.  Please feel free to delete at your leisure.

Cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 16, 2019, 05:35:38 AM
I'll be watching.

I got a bit super excited with the idea of exaggerating the slope a bit, saw a potential change straight away and had to do a quick sketch to see how it would look.  Its a bit more work but food for thought.  Please feel free to delete at your leisure.

Cheers, Mark.

Mark, Thanks! That sketch is exactly what I had in mind.  Below is a photo from Doug's website and I think it clearly shows how easily I could do that.  I like it!
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-161019053029.jpeg)

In the instruction book, he shows a diagram of his foam base. It shows only a 1.5 inch rise. His photos make that look more dramatic, but I am inclined to go for double that to increase the dramatic impact.
Thanks!
George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on October 16, 2019, 08:47:12 AM
George yur off to a fine start!!


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on October 16, 2019, 03:56:00 PM
Looking forward to it, George. 

Its nice to make some little changes here and there to make it a little different from the original.  I'm not surprised you saw the same thing as me - it kind of jumps out at you when you start thinking about exaggerating the gradient.  Oh - I love the kit you're getting for Christmas - so much drama!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 16, 2019, 08:18:27 PM
Mark, indeed I can't wait to get to that one, but of course will...must. 
Today I gave the Vallon Paint walls and strip wood trim a coat of A & I, and when thoroughly dry, a sponged coat of white paint. Below are the walls with the A & I. The darkest wall (lower left) is the one that will be in the shadows of the alley, least bleached by the sun and heavily mildewed. It is a stark difference here, will be a subtle effect under the paint.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-161019200138.jpeg)

Strip wood in many kits is stained on the end to help identify it quickly. That is handy, but there is a danger.  A good example of why you should not use the stained end on any visible areas is shown below.  After a coat of A & I, they bled into the newspaper wherever they touched.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-161019200222.jpeg)

The Vallon Paint walls with a white top coat. I sponge painted cheap craft store acrylic paint, using a synthetic sponge saved from packing materials.  I really like this particular white paint because it is thick and dries super flat with a distinct texture from its high viscosity that looks like aged paint. After it is completely dry I will clean up the lines between boards where the thick paint filled in any desirable detail.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-161019200309.jpeg)

Not shown, I put a coat of gray primer on the plastic window castings using Rustoleum rattle can primer. They are still curing as I type this.

Cheers!
George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on October 17, 2019, 10:32:02 AM
Looks great George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: deemery on October 17, 2019, 10:57:41 AM
It's worth ordering 1/8" square wood in bulk for bracing wood and even styrene structures (I get mine from Mt Albert).  You can't be too strong, have too many clamps, or use too much bracing :-)


dave
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: rpdylan on October 17, 2019, 11:01:03 AM
looking good George, appreciate the time you are taking by posting photos, ect.  When it comes to stripwood, I like to separate them and label what they are.... once I stain them, the color on the ends can disappear!
   That is a nice shade of white that you are using
   
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ACL1504 on October 17, 2019, 01:38:48 PM
George,

I'm late to the party but following closely. Great start. This is one of the kits I wanted to get but just didn't have room in the stash pile or on the layout.  :'(

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: S&S RR on October 17, 2019, 02:17:34 PM
George


I really like the plan for elevation change. Great start on the kit.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 17, 2019, 08:16:36 PM
Thanks for the comments and welcome, Tom.  I'm very happy to have you looking over my shoulder.

The walls, windows and trim have all cured for a day so it's time to start putting glue to wood. Below are the Vallon Paint walls with corner trim added.  I also painted the parts to the display window on the laser cut sheet.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-171019200732.jpeg)

I used the back of a razor knife blade to clean out the lines between boards. It gives it more definition in spots where the paint wanted to hide detail.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-171019200808.jpeg)

Added and weathered some signs.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-171019200848.jpeg)

And with windows, it is starting to come alive.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-171019200927.jpeg)

I was looking closer at the site plan and counted eleven or twelve structures in this kit (counting the livery shed as a distinct structure). Wow.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on October 17, 2019, 09:52:16 PM
George,

Looking really good (and you have barely started).  Glad I have a front row seat for this build!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on October 18, 2019, 03:57:26 PM
Great color on the walls George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on October 18, 2019, 06:08:32 PM
Hey George:

It's looking just great. My Great Grandfather through myself were house painters and paperhangers. I mixed lots of White Lead, oil and turpentine. We used to make our own paint. Probably luck I didn't get lead poisoning.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 19, 2019, 05:25:47 AM
Thanks for the compliment, Jerry.   Karl, I love that story and your connection to that sign.  Sounds like maybe I should add a few extra vents to the roof, for safety.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: MAP on October 19, 2019, 07:33:57 AM
Great start George!  It certainly would be a more dramatic effect super-elevating the buildings.  I'll be following along. Lead, oil & turpentine oh my!  Extra vents would be a good idea. 
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on October 19, 2019, 09:54:58 AM
Love that coloring terrific job so far!!


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ReadingBob on October 19, 2019, 10:43:20 AM
Repeating what everyone else has said - Great job!  The walls look excellent.   ;)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: sdrees on October 19, 2019, 03:18:30 PM
Hey George, the paint effect looks great, as do the signs.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ACL1504 on October 19, 2019, 03:38:19 PM
Ditto to all the above.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 20, 2019, 10:06:51 AM
Thank you, everyone.  Let's continue with dressing out the walls for Vallon Paint.

Sometimes I mentally walk through the steps per the instructions, keeping all parts in front of me, so I can visualize and better understand the steps. At this point, however, I skipped over the paint stencil and installed the window castings first.  Had I visualized the steps, I would have realized that the window castings would interfere with affixing the stencil absolutely flat on the wall.  So I had to trim the top and bottom of the "PAINT" stencil to make it fit between the castings.  This made applying the black paint to the stencil a little more "fussy" than it normally would have been.  However, all turned out well enough.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201019094406.jpeg)

My observation on using stencils is to apply a much, much lighter coat that you think you need, if you are going for an aged effect.  Almost what you would consider too light.  Here, I thought I had gone too light, but when I removed the stencil, realized it was even a shade darker than I had envisioned.  I like it though and did not attempt to lighten it by sponging on more white.  Don't forget to go back and carefully fill in the tiny areas where the stencil cut through the letters.

I added window shades, the laser-cut doors and began building the storefront window.  Below is a close-up to better show the construction of the bay window.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201019094443.jpeg)

Here is the reverse of this same wall at this point in the construction.  The laser cut door components are so precise that gluing them in place can be a little difficult as their side edges are so thin, making a tiny area for the glue to hold.  Also, if your trim is not exactly right, a little light will show through.  If the door is solid and will be closed, I like to glue some black construction paper to the back wall surface. This allows me to glue the laser cut door directly to the black paper instead of to the door frame itself, and it also blocks any light that may show through the edges.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201019094512.jpeg)

I took some very thin wire and fashioned a door handle, then used a pin vise to drill holes to match the wire size. A drop of wood glue on the reverse holds the handle in place where the ends of the wire poke through.  In the bay window, you can see some tiny bits of scrap representing a display.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201019094536.jpeg)

Installation of the alley entrance door using the same black paper backing.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201019094605.jpeg)

Just about ready to assemble the walls.  I found some tiny scraps of leftover shingles (already painted!--a bonus)  from The Terminal kit for the small bay window roof.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201019094630.jpeg)

Maybe more later today--stay tuned.  --George

 
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on October 20, 2019, 12:28:14 PM
Very nicely done George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on October 20, 2019, 02:02:34 PM
Your structure is looking fantastic, George!

I love the little boxed window with all the details inside - and the addition of shingles to its roof looks great.  You seem to have also made most of your nail holes disappear, which is very effective.

Cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 20, 2019, 03:50:33 PM
Your structure is looking fantastic, George!

I love the little boxed window with all the details inside - and the addition of shingles to its roof looks great.  You seem to have also made most of your nail holes disappear, which is very effective.

Cheers, Mark.

Thank you, Mark! I am slowly learning the art of subtlety in modeling. 

I mentioned earlier the high viscosity of the white acrylic craft paint that I prefer.  It also happens to be the cheapest at the craft store--so I can't genuinely claim "yea, I planned it that way."  But after seeing how it performed in a previous build, and how the dry sponged-on paint cracks and resembles chipping paint, I went out and got several more bottles before they changed their formula. ;)
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 20, 2019, 03:58:18 PM
Two more shots of the Vallon Paint structure with walls up. First is just the four walls, clamped and drying.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201019154241.jpeg)

I assembled the dormer, found the roof and added some bracing. The taskboard is thin, and once I glue on (yes, I still prefer glue to transfer tape) the roofing, don't want it to warp or sag.

Not shown, because it is still drying/curing, is the roof paper. I used rattle can flat black, lightly oversprayed with light gray, then a top overspray of flat black again. I like the effect and you will see it in my next installment.  Below are most of the rest of the Vallon Paint components, minus details such as chimneys, exhaust vents, and such.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201019154314.jpeg)

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on October 20, 2019, 07:57:53 PM
George,

I really like the weathered paint on a painting company, nice subtle humor coupled with some very accomplished modeling.  Adding details to the bay window is a nice way of implying there is detail inside the structure.  Really glad I have a front row seat for this build.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Dave K. on October 20, 2019, 08:34:15 PM
Awesome build!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: rpdylan on October 21, 2019, 08:39:48 AM
real nice work there George!

   What is the spread of those blue clamps? where did you get them?
thanks
bob c
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 21, 2019, 07:43:08 PM
Thanks Jerry and Dave!  Bob, the  blue clamps will accommodate about a seven-inch spread. I like them for squaring up structures while clamping to dry. The locks slide in place with finger pressure, making it easy to adjust pressure.  I found them on e-Bay. I can't find the manufacturer on them, unfortunately.  I want to say Osborn, since I got them at the same time as my file card and I thought they were made by the same company.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on October 21, 2019, 07:52:51 PM
Bob,

The clamps are made by Excel and come in 3" and 7" lengths.  I have both sizes and find that I have to be careful the clamps are exactly where I want them before pushing the wedge into place, otherwise they work quite well. 
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 21, 2019, 07:54:50 PM
I put a light coat of white glue on the roof surface and applied the roofing strips, trying to give some contrast in length and shade. I'm always self-conscious that, in trying to make it look random, it will come out looking anything but random.  Below is the roof, ready to go under a heavy book to dry.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-211019192940.jpeg)

Here, trim has been applied to the tops of the walls, the main roof glued down and the dormer glued in place.  For small structures such as this, I like rubber bands to hold the roof to the walls to dry. These have a gentle tension that won't make the walls bow in, but are strong enough to do the job. 
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-211019193017.jpeg)

To do yet: apply battens to the roof, weather the roof, apply more light weathering to the walls with pastel chalks. Prep, paint and apply castings: chimney, electrical service, misc.  Make rain gutters and downspouts.  A few more days and this first structure in the kit will be done.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 21, 2019, 07:58:26 PM
Bob,

The clamps are made by Excel and come in 3" and 7" lengths.  I have both sizes and find that I have to be careful the clamps are exactly where I want them before pushing the wedge into place, otherwise they work quite well.

Yes, thank you, Jerry.  Those are Excel clamps.  As soon as I read your post I recognized the name. 
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 22, 2019, 08:01:09 PM
Some quick progress pics.

Here I added a piece of black construction paper for a light baffle.  I like how it gives depth.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-221019195516.jpeg)

Here is the Burger Joint cardboard wall ready to go on the base. I have already attached the single solid wall.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-221019195604.jpeg)

More soon.
George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 22, 2019, 08:49:04 PM
While the Burger Joint walls dry, here are shots of Vallon Paint so far.  I applied battens to the roof, added the foundation and fashioned some rain gutters. Still a few more details to add (downspouts, chimney, etc).
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-221019195649.jpeg)

And the other side.  No weathering on the roof, yet. That is on the "to do" list.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-221019195730.jpeg)

Below shows how the Burger Joint will attach to Vallon Paint.  I found the cardboard wall to be just a tiny bit large for the base.  I considered cutting it into single wall panels, but in the end decided to square up the front and rear and allow the side wall to sit slightly out from the base. You can see the cutting mat showing between the side wall and the foundation, below.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-221019195808.jpeg)

To remedy that, I will build out the foundation by adding a length of 1/16th square strip wood.  But for now, that is all. Time to quit and watch the World Series.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on October 22, 2019, 09:26:40 PM
George,

Update photos show some nice progress.  I hope you are planning to darken that batten along the ridge.  It looks pretty bright, though the way it stands out could be the lighting and/or the camera.  I like the decision to add a piece of strip wood to the foundation to make the burger joint walls match the base. 
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on October 22, 2019, 10:32:37 PM
George very nice. Looking forward to your progress.


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 23, 2019, 05:21:49 AM
George,

Update photos show some nice progress.  I hope you are planning to darken that batten along the ridge.  It looks pretty bright, though the way it stands out could be the lighting and/or the camera.  I like the decision to add a piece of strip wood to the foundation to make the burger joint walls match the base.

Hi Jerry--thanks!  You are right--it does look quite bright in the photo. I didn't notice at first.  There is not as much contrast to the naked eye so my incandescent goose-neck work lamp may be producing some of that.  I also used a piece of strip wood from stock rather from the kit, so different wood with different qualities of showing the driftwood stain as well.  I'll go over it with another bit of stain.
With regard to the foundations--both are supplied with the kit.

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 23, 2019, 05:22:39 AM
George very nice. Looking forward to your progress.

Jerry

Thanks much, Jerry!
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on October 23, 2019, 09:45:25 AM
Very nice George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on October 23, 2019, 02:34:43 PM
Hey George:

Looks just beautiful. I especially love the signs.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: fsmcollector67 on October 23, 2019, 05:32:41 PM
George,
 Very nicely done so far.....

Loren....
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 24, 2019, 08:16:43 PM
Thanks for the nice comments, Curt, Karl and Loren.

The walls for the Burger Joint are corrugated metal--not a very inviting look for a fine dining establishment. So the owner decided to dress it up with a coat of blue paint--quite a while ago.  I began by spraying the corrugated panels with Rustoleum red primer--a nice base for rust.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241019195935.jpeg)

Then I added the blue, topped off by some shades of gray, then some browns. All colors are acrylics thinned with water.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241019200026.jpeg)

I used scissors to cut the separate panels--a tip I learned here. But any method of cutting leaves the uncolored edges.  I used an alcohol art marker with wide chisel tip to quickly color the edges.  This is "Pewter," but most gray shades will work well. Brown could also be used for a rusted edge.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241019200106.jpeg)

Panels are applied to the wall base with wood glue. I worked around the window and door openings, and when it came time to side around the openings, used a technique I learned from a Builders In Scale kit.  Cover one half of a window and let the panel glue set.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241019200139.jpeg)

Cut out the half window, then apply the next panel.  With the first half cut, you can easily see where to make the next cuts.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241019200229.jpeg)

Test fitting a window to the opening--Success!
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241019200306.jpeg)

Time to let everything dry and cure.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on October 24, 2019, 09:16:15 PM
George,

That front row seat I grabbed is really paying off.  I like the way you did your corrugated siding.  Clear explanation of what you did and a great result.  Blue is a difficult color to use without it looking too bright.  IMO you nailed it perfectly.  Definitely enjoying this build!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: S&S RR on October 24, 2019, 10:04:11 PM
George


I'm just getting caught up on your build. Looks fantastic so far. I have this kit in my stash so I'm watching with great interest.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on October 24, 2019, 11:43:31 PM
Looking good, George.

I, too, like the technique and colour you used/ achieved on the corrugated iron.  The maker on the side is a nice tip.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: rpdylan on October 25, 2019, 12:30:52 AM
Really nice! What color blue did you use?
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Janbouli on October 25, 2019, 03:28:34 AM
Corrugated steel looks amazing , great job.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 25, 2019, 08:30:54 AM
Really nice! What color blue did you use?
[/quote)

Thanks for all the nice comments, guys.
Bob, below is a shot of all the acrylic paints I used, lined up, to get the "final" color on the corrugated siding (not really final--I'll play around with a few more streaks of rust and grime in the final weathering step.)

I diluted them with water to various degrees.  Some just slightly where I wanted a stronger effect, some to a greater degree where I wanted a wash.  The base color of Rustoleum red primer also muted them.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019081812.jpeg)

In case you find it difficult to read the color names, they are, from left to right: Scuba, Desert Sand, Terra Cotta, Chestnut, Fossil Gray and Pale Gray.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on October 25, 2019, 09:17:58 AM
Very nice work Opa George.  I am going to have to try out that corrugated metal technique on my next structure build.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 25, 2019, 12:43:27 PM
Thanks, Bruce!
Continuing on, I added acetate "glass" to all windows, nice sunny diner shades and an "Open" sign to the front door, then glued them to the walls, leaving the front door ajar so I can add a customer later.  I roofed it in tarpaper, but changed up the color. The paper roofing strips had been spray-painted flat black.  I took three of the strips and over sprayed with Rustoleum primer red. When that was dry over sprayed a little lighter with Rustoleum "Multicolored Textured" Desert Bisque.  I rather like the final result. 
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019122656.jpeg)

I constructed the roof sign per the provided template, and added a few more details and signs. Although not yet done, below are a few progress pics.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019122737.jpeg)

and the side, which to my eyes is calling out for a billboard poster or vines or something:
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019122814.jpeg)

and what it looks like in place (not yet attached) next to Vallon Paint.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019122854.jpeg)

Sorry if these pics are a little fuzzy--I may have gotten too close with the camera.
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on October 25, 2019, 02:13:19 PM
George


Great idea going with the blue.  it really made a difference.  Really nice work.


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on October 25, 2019, 03:32:46 PM
I really like the blue color.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 25, 2019, 03:56:55 PM
Jerry and Curt, thanks for the feedback on the blue color.  I've read, and heard, that blue must only be used judiciously and rarely on model structures because it seldom looks good.  I have to say, though, that I have quite a bit of blue on the structures on my layout. I tend to use muted blues and grayish blues.  Maybe that is the safe zone on the color wheel!

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 25, 2019, 04:27:31 PM
I attached the burger joint, Hole In the Wall Grill, to the paint shop and added more details, dry brushed some highlights with silver, then with light gray, and applied chalk weathering powder.  Still to do, add downspouts and the electrical service cable. Below are shots all around:
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019155836.jpeg)

Front side and alley:
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019155909.jpeg)

Front from other angle:
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019155947.jpeg)

I set the first two structures aside for now--let the paint and glue fully dry before adding additional details.  Next up is the gas station. As this is a stucco structure, the walls are fiber board and will assemble via tab and slot construction.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019160026.jpeg)

Although the roof is not to be added until later, I have it on, but not yet glued, in order to keep the wall angles accurate. 
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019160109.jpeg)

Here is the assembly as seen upside down, showing the scribed wood ceiling, which also helps guide the shape.  I added nail holes, but little distressing as this would be in a protected area. Hunterline Light Gray brings out the texture and the nail holes.  You may note at this point minimal internal bracing.  I'll add some bracing after the entire assembly fully dries. As there was no A&I application, there was no fear of warping at this point.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019160153.jpeg)

The next step in the instructions made me pause. The posts on the gas pump island are cut to fit from 1/8 inch square strip stock. However the pilot model shows the structure on a foundation, whereas no foundation is mentioned in the instructions and none is provided, that I could tell.  If the structure is later elevated on a foundation, the cut posts will be short by about 1/16th inch.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019160231.jpeg)

There is a sidewalk provided for this structure, so I went to my parts box and found a scrap of 1/16th sheet wood, the height matching the sidewalk, large enough to accommodate the gas station.  I cut it to fit, and can now measure and cut the island columns.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019160307.jpeg)

Here, the core assembly is drying.  The roof, foundation, sidewalk and gas pump island are not glued yet.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-251019160344.jpeg)

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on October 25, 2019, 07:49:14 PM
Looking good, George.

Are you sure you don't want the internal floor within the walls?  It now looks like you will need two steps from the front door to the road - one level with the threshold (or just down a fraction) and one at the same height as the footpath.  I wonder whether these will encroach too much on the forecourt?

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 26, 2019, 07:39:01 AM
Looking good, George.

Are you sure you don't want the internal floor within the walls?  It now looks like you will need two steps from the front door to the road - one level with the threshold (or just down a fraction) and one at the same height as the footpath.  I wonder whether these will encroach too much on the forecourt?

Cheers, Mark.

Mark, Thanks--I'll take a closer look at that before I glue my impromptu foundation on--something to examine.  But I don't think even an extra step will intrude enough to matter. I was planning on a few oil drums or other items outside the door anyway.  Below is Doug's pilot model with something under the structure, although I know the pilot doesn't always match the kit exactly.
--George
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-261019073655.jpeg)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on October 26, 2019, 02:30:38 PM
Hmmm.  You see in my opinion that should really have two steps - everyone would trip over the threshold as they went into the shop.  Having said that I have seen them like this, and we are always short on space on our models.  I'm probably guilty of the same myself.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: deemery on October 26, 2019, 06:14:55 PM
The "front side and alley" photo highlights a real discrepancy with this kit.  Why is the one door a foot or 2 higher than the others? 


dave
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 26, 2019, 06:27:18 PM
The "front side and alley" photo highlights a real discrepancy with this kit.  Why is the one door a foot or 2 higher than the others? 

dave

I've been assuming the door on the front is a loading or freight door and the side panel door is the walk-through entrance.  At least that is how I'll present them once in place.  I think it will work.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 28, 2019, 07:56:17 PM
Just a rather boring photo today of the gas station walls primed. I used gray primer outside and black inside.  Also primed in gray are the laser cut windows and the plastic door. Next step will be application of the Durhams Water Putty for stucco. It's a bit of a fussy operation but my last foray into water putty stucco turned out well enough.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-281019194825.jpeg)

--George

Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 29, 2019, 08:42:14 PM
This evening I applied the Durhams Water Putty mix as stucco.  The rough coat always looks, well, rough.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-291019203235.jpeg)

The other side:
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-291019203325.jpeg)

Using a razor knife, I cleaned out the window openings, the door opening, removed a few stray smears and globs and cleaned off the tabs at the top of each wall that fit into the roof.  It is looking much better now. 
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-291019203407.jpeg)

After it is totally dry, at least 24 hours, I will sand it and otherwise fool around with the finish to refine how it looks, pre-paint.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 30, 2019, 05:01:26 PM
The gas station stucco has dried overnight to a near rock-hard finish, making sanding down the high spots relatively easy. I used a few cheap disposable nail files along with some 320 grit sandpaper. The nail files helped in defining the edges of the window sills. Below is side one:
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-301019165109.jpeg)

And side two.  The smooth areas represent the stucco top layer, and the rough, lightly sanded areas represent the rough exposed masonry where the stucco has crumbled away.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-301019165147.jpeg)

I gave it a coat of Rustoleum camouflage ultra-flat "Camo Sand" from a rattle can. This color will provide the base color for the exposed masonry.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-301019165228.jpeg)

All for now.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on October 30, 2019, 05:16:16 PM
Very nice job George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 30, 2019, 07:27:29 PM
Thank you, Curt!  I just added paint to the walls. I sponged on acrylic white to the entire structure except for the concrete gas island, which I painted a light brownish gray.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-301019192020.jpeg)

And the other side.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-301019192104.jpeg)

Then added a red lower half, and a blue stripe, with blue accents on the windowsills. The red was applied with a blue tape mask in place, but when I tried that with the narrow blue stripe it was not good. So the blue stripe is painted freehand.  I'll go back after it dries and dress up the lines a bit more.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-301019192144.jpeg)

Later I will tone down the bright blue with some chalks, selective sanding, etc. The windows and door are lying in the background, sponge painted a matching red.

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on October 31, 2019, 09:12:33 AM
Hey George:

Looks good and I'm following along.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on October 31, 2019, 07:43:19 PM
Thanks and welcome, Karl.
Today I installed the windows and door and added some signs. It is coming along nicely. The roof will be next.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-311019194027.jpeg)

George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on October 31, 2019, 07:50:05 PM
George nice job on the stucco & paint!


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 02, 2019, 11:48:29 AM
Thanks, Jerry. It's certainly a work in progress.
Here I added a coat of Hunterline Light Gray overall.  I then wiped over the white areas with a cloth to remove most of the gray cast from the white surface, leaving it to darken the masonry underneath, and to take the brightness from the red and blue.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-021119113942.jpeg)

I will have to do a little bit of touchup on the red and maybe the blue. The stain softened the acrylic just enough that I accidentally removed a touch here and there, exposing the bright white underneath.  I also note the stain darkened the wall thermometer to obscure the face.  Maybe it will be visible when fully dry, but I'm not optimistic. Note for future: apply the tiny detailed paper signs after.

Time to glue the roof in place. I replaced some of the center with a piece of scrap scribed siding, to represent the roof boards underneath. When I apply the roofing paper, I will allow some random spots of wood to show through.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-021119114012.jpeg)

The wood was distressed and then colored with full strength A & I mixture, and some randomly applied Hunterline Driftwood.

George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on November 02, 2019, 12:44:44 PM
Looks great George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on November 02, 2019, 02:08:20 PM
Looking good, George.

The timber-work beneath the flat roof will make a nice touch, although it will make the building leaky.  Maybe you will need to address that in further weathering?  An exposed patch over the front wall with corresponding rot in the ceiling over the forecourt and water stains down the wall?

Cheers, mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 04, 2019, 07:22:53 PM
Mark, thanks for the extra weathering ideas for my bad roof.  I like them and will be adding a little more rot to the front ceiling and wall.

Below is the building with roof paper installed but not yet trimmed.  I allowed two distinct bare areas on the roof where the tar paper blew away.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-041119191550.jpeg)

Below is the same after some trimming, cutting away, tearing and weathering. I also added a Charlie Chaplin movie bill to the wall.  The image is not sharp, so I will post a few better views after I get the rooftop sign built and installed, which is the next step.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-041119191631.jpeg)

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on November 04, 2019, 08:48:55 PM
Nice job on the roof.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on November 05, 2019, 12:25:36 AM
Nice weathering on the roof.


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ACL1504 on November 05, 2019, 07:57:06 AM
George,

It's so horrible and nasty looking it looks fantastic. Well done.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Todd W. on November 05, 2019, 09:15:32 AM
This kit is coming along fantastic George!  You always do killer work!  I love following your build threads!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 06, 2019, 07:39:50 PM
Thanks, Curt, Jerry and Tom.  I love that comment, Tom. This really resembles the grungy corner garages of my childhood. Todd, your support and comments are much appreciated!

Only had time for a bit of modeling, so I added the rooftop sign.  It will need some weathering and streaking.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-061119193055.jpeg)

We're advertising tires, belts, oil, batteries, with no access to the interior for a vehicle. So apparently all of the work is done outside in the alleys alongside the building. This really DOES resemble a few of those tiny corner garages I remember.  Yes, indeed, this is going to be a hoot to model all of that going on!

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 11, 2019, 08:19:08 PM
Can't really add other details until I start building the base for the entire complex of structures, so here is the gas station pretty much done, next to Vallon Paint and the burger joint.  I added a Bollinger Edgerly "Skanky Yankee" Gas Station Attendant, currently holding up the front porch column while he waits for a customer or lunchtime, whichever arrives first.  Now I need a name for him.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-111119200128.jpeg)

Here is the other side of the gas station with some Rusty Rail junk castings to keep it from looking lost.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-111119200201.jpeg)

But now I can move on to the Livery building. Doug Foscale describes this as another simple, four wall structure, which it appears to be from the wall pieces.  The walls are not on the larger wood sheets, but rather may be found in the small plastic bag of miscellaneous wood walls.  I also located the roof, the foundation, and a very small porch base.  Everything is laid out in the picture below prior to bracing.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-111119200244.jpeg)

I have them braced and drying. Will post more tomorrow.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on November 11, 2019, 09:24:15 PM
It all looks great.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 12, 2019, 05:18:44 AM
Thanks for the support, Curt.

I also discovered the gas station attendant's name is  Otto "Hub" Kapp.

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: MAP on November 12, 2019, 06:04:58 AM
Great work on this build George! 
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: JimF on November 12, 2019, 06:56:06 AM
Really cool, George, Coming along nicely, as all your builds do.

Jim
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 12, 2019, 08:41:56 PM
Thank you Mark, and thank you, Jim.

Here are the Livery walls with some distressing using a file card, then a welder's brush, then a wash of A&I.  The doors are sponge painted with white acrylic paint.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-121119203411.jpeg)

For wall color, I chose an acrylic "Deep Wine."  It is a very dark red, but I dry-brushed it on and it stayed relatively light with a washed out look. 
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-121119203541.jpeg)

Above is one of those weird and rare mistakes in the instructions. I added corner trim per the diagrams, but only after it had mostly dried did I realize that the high (front) end of each long wall did not need it, since corner trim is also applied to each side of the front.  I was able to remove it without a great deal of trouble, fortunately, and sanded the edge smooth.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on November 13, 2019, 08:42:16 AM
George,

Great job on the walls, looking forward to seeing the Livery come to life.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on November 13, 2019, 10:24:03 AM
Looks great.  I love that washed out red color you where able to create for the structure.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 13, 2019, 08:15:06 PM
Jerry and Bruce, thanks very much for the looks over my shoulder and the kind comments!
I added the window and doors, attached it to the base and roofed over the roof card.  The roof card includes two vents, half-die cut into the surface. I applied paper to the opposite side and cut out the vents from the die-cut guides on the bottom.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-131119200400.jpeg)

Here is the structure assembled. Lots of detail to add, but this is the basic form. I posed the front doors open, which means I need to come up with enough interior detail to suggest activity.  I have some ideas.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-131119200441.jpeg)

The other side. This side, if sited according to the plan, will adjoin the machine shops and won't be seen. But as I am planning some elevation changes, part or all of it may be exposed. How much will have to wait for me to play around a bit, later.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-131119200513.jpeg)

A better view of the roof and vents.  The back door is up and will have a porch built underneath.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-131119200559.jpeg)

As I noted, lots to add to this one yet.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ReadingBob on November 14, 2019, 09:03:37 AM
Thanks for the support, Curt.

I also discovered the gas station attendant's name is  Otto "Hub" Kapp.

--George

Love it!   ;D  ;D  ;D

The structures are looking great.  This is really going to be something when you're done working your magic on it.  ;)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on November 14, 2019, 09:29:12 AM
George,

Interesting design by Doug with the door at the rear elevated above the floor level.  I'll be watching to see how you make everything come together on a hillside.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 14, 2019, 07:55:06 PM
Thank you, Bob!  Jerry, I'm not exactly sure how this will come out--we'll see!

I didn't get anything dramatic done tonight. Lots of small details: the roof vent frames, the porch under the back door, and the frame of the outside horse stall.  It is coming along...
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-141119195159.jpeg)
George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 16, 2019, 03:19:40 PM
When I returned to my workbench, I decided the outside horse stall should be longer than provided, so I essentially just doubled it in length.  I also created a concrete pad from scrap sheet siding. It is spraypainted with dark gray primer, with a very light overspray of camo desert sand.  After it dried, I scribed in expansion joints and cracks.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-161119150940.jpeg)

I am also making the stall slightly wider. The instructions call for locating the timber wall 7/8th inch from the livery side wall, but I went out to the edge of the concrete, which is 1 & 1/8th inch.  I also remembered to install it with the horizontal boards on the horse side. The wider measurement meant I could not use the provided template for the rafters.  I eyeballed the length I needed, cut and checked it. When satisfied that it was long enough, then cut eight more for nine rafters total.

Below is where the structure is at so far.  I'll let the timber wall dry thoroughly on the base before installing the rafters and tarp roof.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-161119151016.jpeg)

Cheers!
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on November 16, 2019, 07:58:50 PM
Very nice George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 17, 2019, 03:51:58 PM
Thanks much, Curt!
The outside horse stall will have a green tarp for a "roof," so to create one I painted full strength "sage green" acrylic over a tissue. First one side, then when it was mostly dry, the other side. That needs to thoroughly dry overnight before working with it further. By tomorrow, the sheen will be gone.  Wrinkles are perfectly fine for this.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-171119153919.jpeg)

While the tarp dried, I began installing the stall rafters. I notched each on the outer end slightly so that it contacts the timber wall better. I just eyeballed their placement--starting with one on each end, then dividing each resulting space with the next one.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-171119154002.jpeg)

Once all the rafters were in place, I began cutting straw from a package of Woodland Scenics yellow field grass.  I just picked up pinches and cut and recut until it was very, very fine.  It occurred to me that I should paint and install certain detail castings inside the stall before placing the straw, so am currently painting a few castings (not shown).  I did experiment with it by placing some at the front doors to the livery.  I think it will look ok.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-171119154038.jpeg)

More tomorrow.
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on November 17, 2019, 05:30:01 PM
Looking good Opa.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on November 17, 2019, 06:54:19 PM
Looking forward to seeing the "tarp" used.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 19, 2019, 08:21:13 PM
Thanks, Karl, and thanks, Curt. I was going to get to the tarp this evening but ran into a snag.

Below is the livery stable with a nice Rusty Rail shelving casting painted and in place. I had a pile of "straw" ready to glue in place all around the floor.  So far so good.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-191119201252.jpeg)

I put down a thin base coat of carpenter's glue, then placed piles of straw. Here is where I think I invited a possible problem: to secure the piles of straw, I syringed on a mix of thin white glue (3 parts water, 1 part white glue).  It beaded up, so added a bit of alcohol to break the water tension.  The globes of thin white glue soaked in immediately, and it looked good. 

Then the wooden "concrete" base began to curl up like a dried leaf, pulling away from the bottom of the timber posts.  So I clamped it to a flat surface and decided to let it dry completely before any more work. The tarps will have to wait until tomorrow or later.  I hope it dried flat!  We'll see!
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-191119201324.jpeg)

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on November 19, 2019, 11:46:07 PM
Looks really good, George.  I don't know why you went to the trouble of scribing in expansion joints and cracks into the concrete though.   ;D

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 20, 2019, 05:13:45 AM
HI Mark,
Yes, that work may not show through much now. That's ok. Sometimes the muse leads you in a different direction.
Smiles--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on November 20, 2019, 05:40:28 AM
Hey George:

Looks great. Keep the photos coming.

Karl

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: cuse on November 20, 2019, 06:09:59 AM
Really great work. The hay effect is perfect!


John
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 20, 2019, 09:02:21 AM
Really great work. The hay effect is perfect!

John

Thanks, John. As Mark notes, the concrete work below is now hidden.  :(   My original plan was for most of the hay to be piled up near the sides (a lot of vintage pics of the interiors of livery stables showed that) with the middle of the concrete pad showing through.  But I got a little "hay fever" and a bit too much!  Oh, well, I do like it this way, too.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 20, 2019, 09:06:20 AM
Really great work. The hay effect is perfect!

John

Thanks, John. As Mark notes, the concrete work below is now hidden.  :(   My original plan was for most of the hay to be piled up near the sides (a lot of vintage pics of the interiors of livery stables showed that) with the middle of the concrete pad showing through.  But I got a little "hay fever" and a bit too much!  Oh, well, I do like it this way, too.
--George

Excuse me all -- replace all references to "hay" with "straw."  That's my city-boy culture fouling me up on matters of keeping livestock.  ;)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ReadingBob on November 20, 2019, 03:00:59 PM
It looks perfect George!   :D  :D  :D

The stable hands must have just cleaned up the place else there'd be some....err... exhaust piles mixed in with the hay...err.... straw.   ;D  ;D  ;D  Maybe you can add some scent to the scene to really bring it to life.   ::)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: deemery on November 20, 2019, 04:15:01 PM
What's the old saying, "You can get more for hay before it's passed through the horse."??


dave
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 20, 2019, 08:13:35 PM
Sage observations, Bob and Dave!

I finally got the tarps on.  Took as long as a 1:1 job, but in the end, I like the look.  I still need a ladder so the stable hands can get up and at the tarps.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201119200832.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201119200904.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-201119200942.jpeg)

George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on November 20, 2019, 08:16:43 PM
Looks great George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Oldguy on November 20, 2019, 08:54:54 PM
That is one sweet build.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on November 20, 2019, 11:44:15 PM
Lots of eye candy there!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 21, 2019, 06:38:04 AM
Thanks for looking in, Curt, Bob and Mark. I appreciate your support.  As part of the overall kit, this structure is deceptively under-emphasized in the instructions. It is the last "simple" structure before tackling the more complicated machine shops, or the featured enamel works with its multiple stories and tower,  but I have had a great time with it and I think it's been my most enjoyable part so far.

Still more details to add.  Although I appreciate suggestions, I am going to pass on Bob's idea of adding scent! ;)

Speaking of which, who remembers the line of model railroad scents marketed back in the 70s or early 80s?  I sniffed around the internet and found the product: it was "Olfactory Airs" by Mikros Corp. They advertised in MR.

George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: rpdylan on November 21, 2019, 07:21:47 AM
Great work on the framing of the stall! the weathering looks great, love the signs and the other detail work here. I'm following along closely as I've yet to start my kit
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: JimF on November 21, 2019, 07:45:37 AM
Love the tarps, George. Neat detail

And yes, I remember Olfactory Airs. A layout I visited back then had coal scent around the coaling tower, and the owner was planning on getting a few more. Never made it back to find out which ones.

Jim
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on November 21, 2019, 08:47:49 AM
Hey George:

Looks just beautiful.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on November 22, 2019, 12:01:49 AM
Opa George,
As far as I am concerned you've already won the Blue ribbon with this model.  Fantastic job!

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 23, 2019, 07:50:33 PM
Thanks so much for the kind comments, Bob, Jim, Karl and Bruce.
I'm calling the livery building done and will move on to the machine shops.  Below are some "final" pics of this structure, although I know I'll find a few more things to tweak or add.  I added the ladder, a rain gutter and downspout, outside lamps, and some etc. 
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-231119194052.jpeg)

The outside horse stall.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-231119194128.jpeg)

And the back side. The long blank wall will butt up against an adjoining structure, and therefore has no detailing. The outhouse is a rusty rails casting, and the small barrel and junk casting next to the back door porch is one of the FSM detail castings now being produced by Railroad Kits.  I picked up the barrels/drums assortment in Timonium from them, and this is from that collection.  Really nice detailed castings.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-231119194203.jpeg)
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on November 23, 2019, 08:43:14 PM
WOW George, you did a beautiful job.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Zephyrus52246 on November 24, 2019, 06:58:32 AM
What a beautiful little structure.  The wood, hay, tarp...everything looks great.

Jeff
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: rpdylan on November 24, 2019, 01:59:36 PM
wow, lots of nice detail on this.... this is going to be a killer diorama when you get done!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 24, 2019, 07:06:27 PM
Thank you so much, Curt, Jeff and Bob. :)

Next up is the machine shops (or, per the instructions, apartments and machine shop). This is the multi-level structure on a hill that I plan to alter to double the height difference from bottom to top. Refer to Mark's sketch on page 2 of this thread to see what I mean. So this is where it gets interesting!

Below are the walls for this angled structure, as they come in the kit. To pull off this kitbash, all of the long non-gable walls will need to be split roughly in half vertically.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241119184347-418101588.jpeg)

Here is what this structure is supposed to look like, along with the wall plan. Note that the machine shop portion is a rectangle and the apartments are a parallelogram.  My plan, adapted from Mark's drawing, will preserve all angles and turn the machine shop into two rectangles and the apartments into two parallelograms.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241119184347-418231059.jpeg)

Of course wouldn't you know it, one cut has to fall on a window.  Fortunately a few of the plugs were still sticking in the walls.  One came in quite handy.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241119184347-418242134.jpeg)

All cuts are now made, and I now have eight half-walls instead of four walls. I laid out the front (left) and back alley (right) to approximate the rise.  In the plan, the rise from top to bottom is only 1.5 inches.  The new plan doubles it to 3 inches. Surprisingly, the incline angle will not double because I can stretch it out an extra few inches, but it will still be a very steep street.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241119184347-41825344.jpeg)

So here are my new walls, ready to start bracing.  With the extra elevations, I needed to make two additional gable end walls.  I did not have any clapboard sheet, but I did have some nice scribed siding, which I will run vertically for visual interest.  There are also four dormers, but for now I have left them on the carrier sheet.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241119184347-41826524.jpeg)

Due to the variance in the plan, I need to study the overall new plan before starting bracing. So that is all for tonight.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Todd W. on November 26, 2019, 10:36:19 AM
Wow George this build is turning out fantastic!  Love every bit of it.  The weathering on the livery is great! and all the details!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on November 26, 2019, 12:41:41 PM
Really looking forward to this part of your build, George.  I do love to see a kit being changed up.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on November 26, 2019, 05:13:16 PM
Hey George:

It's looking just great so far. Looks like lots of walls to work on.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 27, 2019, 04:10:44 PM
Thank you, Karl, and thank you, Mark.  Yes, this is an exciting part. I'm still not exactly sure how it will come together, but I think I have all the main points covered.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 27, 2019, 04:14:38 PM
Wow George this build is turning out fantastic!  Love every bit of it.  The weathering on the livery is great! and all the details!

Todd, thank you. Your input means a lot. I've been following your builds on your website and in your podcasts.  In fact I was listening to the last podcast when I worked on this next step and, wouldn't you know it, had two of the snafus you talked about:  snapped one wall frame next to a window when I dug too deeply trying to lift a board, and I also had the ponce wheel "wander" on one wall.  Thanks for the re-assurance that it happens to all of us.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 27, 2019, 04:22:48 PM
OK, the machine shop walls have had a lot of "background" prep.  As it is all pretty mundane, I haven't documented it in photos. The bracing is done and I distressed the walls with my usual variety of tools: file card, welders brush, lots of lifted boards using a razor knife, and lines of nail holes with a ponce wheel. 

I mentioned above, in my reply to Todd Wiley, how the ponce wheel wandered on one line. I'm sure you'll be able to spot it in the photo below.  Looks like an extra sign, vines or maybe an external plumbing pipe will be in order to hide it later.

Below are the main walls with an initial coat of alcohol and India Ink mixture. I may go with a second application, but will make that decision once they are completely dry.  I want them to have a nice gray look before painting.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-271119160804.jpeg)

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on November 27, 2019, 06:49:05 PM
Looking good George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on November 28, 2019, 12:19:44 PM
Hey George:

The walls looks just great. Hmmm my pounce wheel does that every once in A while to. As you said you will hide it.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 29, 2019, 12:32:44 PM
Thank you, Curt and thank you, Karl.
Today I got a chance to paint the walls.  As noted earlier, I did add a second application of A & I, so two coats in all.  I think my solution of A&I is getting lighter with use and the black pigment is becoming more diluted. So take the two coats note with a grain of salt and apply what looks good to your eyes.

However I did very from my usual procedure by applying a third coat of A&I after I painted the walls. I stumbled on this technique by accident. I had distressed several lengths of 1/16th stock for corner trim and then sponge painted with green paint, then realized I had not given the stock an A&I application before painting, as I usually do.  I applied the A&I on top of the paint, and really liked the effect, tried it out on a rear-facing wall and liked it, so applied this third coat to all the walls.  I think it brings out even more shadow and wood graining.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-291119121411.jpeg)

Below are all the main walls (dormers and pub entrance walls not shown) with window castings installed. No glazing yet.  I used craft store paint as shown. Colors are Nicole's Light Ivory for the white, Arctic Blue for some of the lower floor shop exterior, and Folk Art Forest Moss for the main wall color.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-291119121446.jpeg)

--George

Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 29, 2019, 04:28:10 PM
Windows are glazed and window shades and etc installed. 
Time for assembly. Starting with the highest part of the building, I assembled the first rectangular portion and made sure it was square. The next portion would share the common wall and therefore would be only three-sided.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-291119161740-418341900.jpeg)

I installed guides to help locate the walls for the next lower portion, although I decided to cut them down a bit, which you will see in later photos.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-291119161740-41855924.jpeg)

Parts three and four are the angled portions, and I used the supplied foundation to get the proper angle. With regard to the supplied foundations, I decided to use them as patterns to cut out my own from some thick taskboard I have, since I was going to slice them up anyway.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-291119161740-418562287.jpeg)

The four portions assembled and propped to allow the glue to dry and cure.  So far, so good. This gives a significantly different look from the original model.  This photo does not give a good representation of what it looks like. I'll supply more photos later.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-291119161740-418573.jpeg)

Mark--thanks for the inspiration for this. I really like how it is coming along.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on November 30, 2019, 12:59:06 PM
Exciting, George!

As an observation - you seem to have made it significantly steeper than the sketch.  This will probably require some trickery around the doors - steps down, steps up etc.  Having walked around some very steep city streets with my eyes open - anything is possible!  All you really need is a stairway width in front of the structure - about 1/2" or even a little less.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on November 30, 2019, 06:29:46 PM
Thanks, Mark! Good observation in noting the increased height. In fact my sense of the dramatic got the better of my common sense and I went with a 4 inch total rise. Pretty steep for any road in real life, but certainly workable in my miniature world.

In looking at it, I just realized I have been working with the town of Harpers Ferry, West Virginia in the back of my mind as inspiration. I have visited that town many times and love the feel of the old town built on the side of the mountain. I do plan to set the street back just enough from the building fronts to allow for the necessary access, ramps and stairs. 

I was even thinking of adding a shallow front yard or two with some hogs and chickens--taking that cue from my small town West Virginia visit a few years back.

George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on November 30, 2019, 07:33:59 PM
Wow!  Looking good Opa George.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 02, 2019, 06:33:24 PM
Hey Bruce, thanks for the nice comment!
There is another small structure that tacks on to the back side of the machine shop row: a pub entrance. It is a three-sided, very simple covered entrance. Below are the parts. The directions specified which roof to use, but after taking it from the carrier sheet, I realized it was not wide enough, and it also has a score line, which would not be needed on this application. So perhaps the instructions listed the wrong roof number.  I did not see another more suitable, so will simply use a bit of scrap cardboard.

By the way, and to help anyone who builds this going forward: each of the three walls for the pub entrance are on separate carrier sheets. I guess that is just how they needed to be positioned for maximum efficiency--so be careful which walls you remove to use here.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-021219181643-418582065.jpeg)

Here is the assembled machine shop row, with a few additional details.  The stone wall (not fully colored yet) is cut from a larger random stone wall mold from Bragdon Enterprises.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-021219181643-41882906.jpeg)

A close-up of the interior of the machine shop with some Faller shop machinery on the work floor.  This is woodworking machinery, so not entirely accurate for a machine shop, but I mostly wanted something to suggest machinery through the open doors. I don't think it will be closely inspected.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-021219181643-418832031.jpeg)

I attached the service station to the bottom, and the livery stable to the top, and secured the entire row of structure to the base for eventual installation on my layout.  At this point, still much to do on the row: roofs, lots of trim, and the landscaping on this near side. I'll probably begin to rough that in even as I start the enamel works, which is the feature structure in this kit.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-021219181643-418841311.jpeg)

--George

 
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on December 02, 2019, 07:48:15 PM
George,

You have made some definite progress.  Looks good, I like the slight difference in wall colors.  FWIW, you can always make the machine shop a millwork shop.  I'll be interested to see how you pull the change in elevation together.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: hairball on December 02, 2019, 07:57:59 PM
I just read from page one to page 11, here, and I am impressed with what you have created.   Highly unusual kit design but extremely interesting to build and have on a layout.  All those little sections / dioramas really come together.  My favorite was the gas station.

mike lynch....madmike3434..........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Janbouli on December 03, 2019, 03:30:24 AM
Wow , looking great.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 03, 2019, 05:35:45 AM
George,

You have made some definite progress.  Looks good, I like the slight difference in wall colors.  FWIW, you can always make the machine shop a millwork shop.  I'll be interested to see how you pull the change in elevation together.

Thanks, Jerry. I may make up a new sign on my computer and go with millworks. I like that idea and it will fit well in this neighborhood on my layout.  I don't have all the mechanisms for the elevation changes mapped out yet, but have several ideas.

--George

Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 03, 2019, 05:38:23 AM
Thank you, Jan. And thank you, Mike.  I really enjoy FOS kits--lots of interesting structures and most have certain "flair" to make them stand out.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: cuse on December 03, 2019, 06:37:04 AM
What a great looking, interesting build...I love the multiple levels! That's one of the features Doug Foscale uses so well in his displays. I'll be following


John
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on December 03, 2019, 12:40:07 PM
Looking good, George.

I think I can imagineer that road in place...Do you intend it starting around the corner half way along the garage wall?

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 03, 2019, 02:56:02 PM
Looking good, George.

I think I can imagineer that road in place...Do you intend it starting around the corner half way along the garage wall?

Cheers, Mark.

Hi Mark--that would be great. Have a go at it.  I'm at work now and don't have measurements for you but can get them this evening, with a top-down photo so you can see the plan (although it does follow the zig-zag of the original kit plan).

Also, I plan to use Chooch cobblestone streets, which are actually more like Belgian Block.  I understand cobbles provide more traction than concrete or asphalt.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 03, 2019, 04:40:16 PM
Here is a top-down view of Machine Shop Row (or maybe to be named Millwork Row).
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-031219162858.jpeg)

In round numbers, the total rise is 5 inches and total run is 11 inches.  Yup, that's a 45% incline. By starting the slope at the service station bay instead of halfway along the side wall, and extending the slope to the outside horse stall of the livery stable instead of at the edge of the stable, I can extend the run to 12 inches, which gives a 41.6% incline. But why make it easy on the little 1/87th residents?

George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on December 03, 2019, 09:29:02 PM
HI George.

Baldwin Street, which until recently was considered the steepest street in the world, has a slope of 19 degrees or 1:2.86.  I work your 5/11 out at 24.4 degrees or 1:2.2.  At present you unofficially have the steepest street in the world!  I would run a line from the bottom left of the livery door to the bottom left of the single door with a transom.  If this line kept going down at this already very steep slope it would meet the garage at the center forecourt bay - which I can't see working.  I would be inclined to revisit the first step in height, between apartment one and two (of 1,2,3,4 starting at the bottom).  By lessening this step by maybe 8 clapboards, all would become easy.  Why don't you try mocking up a road and see what you think?

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on December 04, 2019, 10:40:20 AM
Hey George:

WOW!!! you are really making progress with this.

Looks just great.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: JimMooney on December 04, 2019, 07:25:33 PM
Startin' to look like stamp mill... ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 08, 2019, 08:48:40 AM
HI Karl and Jim, thanks for looking in and for the nice comments. I appreciate it.

Mark, I spent the last few days puzzling over the road and decided instead of making it a straight run, went a different route (literally).  I added an extra expanse of board to the diorama base and will take the road out on a bit of a dogleg run perpendicular to the mill to gain length and keep the grade to something considerably less rigorous for my 1/87th residents.

The photo below shows the added space, with red lines superimposed to very roughly approximate the new road. Black lines represent rock faces or fieldstone walls. 
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-081219083231.jpeg)

This will work out better for multiple reasons:
1. More opportunity to build in some dramatic scenery with the rock faces.
2. This preserves the open space below the mill, where the divot is carved out, for a large culvert that will continue on through, under the 5 story factory (the "Enamel Works" in the kit, but destined to be renamed when built), and empty out into the canal on the other side.
3. This arrangement forces me to re-orient the entire diorama by 90 degrees, so that the top of the hill will now butt up against the high part (the dancehall side) of the Rust Rock Falls kit, which will work out better than my original plan.

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on December 08, 2019, 12:07:50 PM
George coming along very nicely.


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on December 08, 2019, 02:07:22 PM
Looking forward to your progress, Jerry.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on December 08, 2019, 04:13:32 PM
Hey George:

It's looking more and more like a building. Great job so far.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 10, 2019, 07:56:22 PM
Thanks Jerry, Mark and Karl!  I appreciate it.

Holiday preparations have kept us busy lately, but yesterday and today I got some work done.  The road from Cold Bottom to Bandit's Roost is laid out and has a sub layer of cardboard. The wood shops will have vehicle access at the top, with stairs, decks and hoists providing access to the lower levels. See the overall birds-eye-view below.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-101219194133.jpeg)

Although I have spent most of my time in figuring out and constructing the narrow, hilly road, I did have time to get back to some detailing on the buildings.  They still lack porches, rain gutters and downspouts, chimneys, vents, etc, etc.  Lots of detail to go on yet.  But now that I have the nagging terrain questions mostly worked out, I can return to the actual kit.

Below is a closeup of the covered alley that runs beneath the shops.  The road surface is Chooch cobblestones, and the rest of the roadway will probably continue in that material.  I needed to cover the road surface first before building the timber supports that hold up the shops.  This is definitely a "low clearance" area, made originally for wagons. It has a ton of detailing possibilities.  Also visible is the carboard tube that makes up the culvert interior.  This size tube matches the Woodland Scenics culvert perfectly. Once scenicked, only the interior of the tube will be visible. But as this will be close to eye level, you will be able to see all the way under the factory complex to the industrial pond on the other side.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-101219194207.jpeg)

It is "coming along."
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on December 10, 2019, 10:31:37 PM
George,

Very innovative approach.  I really like the idea of an alley beneath the shops.  Looking forward to your continued progress. 
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on December 11, 2019, 12:55:02 AM
Looking good, Jerry.

As the door is at floor level you'll need joists and bearers to support the structure.  If the bearers are timber they will need to be pretty substantial.  I would think at least 6"x2" joists and 12"x2" bearers. 

I found a photo I took of a Baldwin street sign a few years back - thought it might be of some interest.

Cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 11, 2019, 05:54:23 AM
Thanks, Jerry, and thanks, Mark, particularly for the bracing advice.  I have some 6" x 2" stock for joists, and am thinking of using 1/8" square strip wood for the bearers--but really weather, scribe and chew it up to resemble really old rough-cut timbers. This will cut my headroom down by about 3/16 inch, but it should still be enough to make it a believable underpass.  ("Low bridge, everybody down!").

George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: JimF on December 12, 2019, 11:05:47 AM
Hi Mark. He's being too polite to mention it, but it is George who is doing the build, not Jerry. Jerry is just the head cheerleader :) (just teasing, Jerry)

George, looking really, really cool. Nice work around to reduce the steepness, but still glad my old legs don't have to hike it lol

Looking forward to your further progress.

Jim
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on December 12, 2019, 01:23:19 PM
Hey George:

Looking good. Can't wait to see more.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on December 12, 2019, 01:25:50 PM
So sorry George!  Looking tremendous!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 13, 2019, 06:53:26 AM
Thanks, Jim, Karl and Mark.  And no worries, Mark. Call me anything but late for dinner.

So I have begun filling in the skeleton of the hill around the mill work shops. No photos, much of it is hard to see anyway. I expect I won't be able to begin the next structure in this kit, the 5-story factory, until after Christmas.

I did start adding the support beams underneath the covered alleyway. It's a bit of reverse engineering and kind of like building a ship in a bottle, but that's my fault. The idea to make a covered alley did not occur to me until after the structure was glued to the base.

I did have time to design a new sign for the shops.  Since I used woodworking machines for the interior, I needed to change it from a machine shop to a wood working operation, and thus needed a new sign.  I found some examples online and created the two signs below in MS Word. The random black shape outside of the border will be trimmed off when I cut them out to apply.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-131219064944.jpeg)

George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: rpdylan on December 13, 2019, 07:40:32 AM
its looking really good-- that is pretty steep up from the gas station, almost like you could run another switchback up to where the road makes that sharp left (the upper switchback), put a set of concrete stairs in from the gas station to the second building...  its really interesting visually what you are doing!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 24, 2019, 11:44:28 AM
Bob, thanks for your comments. I pretty much agreed with everyone that the first part of the road was too steep, so I lessened the grade from the gas station to the alley. I like the overall appearance of the road more, now.  Today (after a week off from modeling for work and holiday preparations) I began laying the cobblestone road from Cold Bottom, the town at the bottom of the hill, to the summit town of Bandit's Roost. I am using Chooch cobblestone streets for this. Below is an overall view.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241219112613.jpeg)

I think if my roads were nice and straight, my pieced together edges would look more seamless.  But this road is angled every which way, and I can see I have some work ahead of me in hiding some seams with weeds and dirt. No problem.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-241219112649.jpeg)

I ran out of cobblestone roadway, so finishing the top will need to wait until I can purchase some more. But I have plenty to do in the meantime with constructing the various decks and stairs to give access to the middle two sections of the mill. That, and still lots of detail to add to the mill before moving on to the showpiece of the kit, the 5-story factory.

I thought I would be further along about  now, as the big "part two" of this build is putting the Rust Rock Falls complex on the summit next to Bandit's Roost.  Rust Rock Falls is arriving via Santa Claus tonight, so I am clearly behind schedule.  Ah, well--it's nice to be blessed with lots of modeling work ahead of me.

--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on December 24, 2019, 11:58:48 AM
George,

I like the roads with the switchback.  The grade change seemed extreme to me when I first saw the structures, but you have done a masterful job of designing the road in a believable way.  This is already exciting, and I am really looking forward to how Rust Rock Falls fits into the scene.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on December 24, 2019, 02:17:11 PM
Great modeling George.  I really like the elevation in this build.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: rpdylan on December 24, 2019, 02:39:24 PM
Hi George!
    Looking good!

      the road in front of the rope store looks a lot better in your latest photos, extending the road out where the gas station makes it look much more do-able for driving a car up it! the bottom of that upper switch-back (the upper left corner of the photos)... is it the angle of the camera/photo?.... it looks as if the bottom of that last hill could be leveled off just a bit more?..... or maybe you are still working on the road underlayment?.....

    Its really coming along nicely, lots of character and interest--- great job!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 26, 2019, 12:58:08 PM
Thanks for looking in, Jerry, Curt and Bob.  The road out near the "elbow" takes a sharp and precipitous turn--part of the drama, I think. I'll smooth out and disguise the crack between the cobblestone pieces but leave the dangerous-looking angle.

Below, two pics of my progress on getting platforms, decks and stairs in. I built a heavy timber loading platform at the top of the hill for wagon and truck access to the millworks. Supports are equally hefty, although I admit it's still dubious engineering. I am capable of a considerable amount of suspension of disbelief, though. I like the rickety look of structures clinging to the side of a mountain.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-261219124124.jpeg)

Another angle.  I have much, much more to do. Balconies, dormers, railings, etc. But I like how it is shaping up.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-261219124202.jpeg)

Cheers!
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Rail and Tie on December 26, 2019, 01:43:46 PM
George, I love what you are doing with this. Very imaginative!  Lemony Snicket immediately comes to mind!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: cuse on December 26, 2019, 02:03:02 PM
Love it...and I love "Dubious Engineering" in our modeling. Great!


John
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Janbouli on December 26, 2019, 05:57:09 PM
Sweet George , the elevations are fantastic.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 27, 2019, 07:27:53 AM
Thanks for the notes, Darryl, John and Jan.   Since I am siting the FOS Rust Rock Falls kit next to this one, I will need a lot of elevation. Rust Rock falls needs about six inches of height below the structures to look good, and more may be even better.

George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on December 27, 2019, 09:25:59 AM
Great work.  Going to be one hell of a diorama.


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 27, 2019, 01:11:41 PM
Thanks, Jerry. I am surely hopeful! 

The dormers for the millworks went together easily. I used an artist's marker (similar to Prismacolor) to color the underside of the cardboard.  This brand is from AC Moore and is "Fossil."
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-271219130345.jpeg)

The windows and window "glass" were all laser cut and fit perfectly. I added roofing to match the existing roof.  They add a nice touch to the overall structure.  I also started the dock, stair and deck railings.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-271219130419.jpeg)

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on December 27, 2019, 01:32:52 PM
Looking really good, George.

A lot of interest going on here.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ACL1504 on December 27, 2019, 02:21:49 PM
George,

This build is really coming together nicely. Well done sir.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: vinceg on December 28, 2019, 11:38:33 AM
OK - I'm officially back in the modeling game as of last night. I finished off a seemingly endless series of wiring tasks and I can finally run trains around the basement. Been waitin' about 25 years to do that. ("Waitin'" was the problem, of course.)

So, what does this have to do a a Bandit's Roost build thread? Turns out I was planning to build that kit next as well -- to create a corner scene (simiilar to rpdylan's comment earlier in this thread) just north of Monee - the first town I'm looking to scenic.

I started working on the paint store last night -- separating walls from the sheets. Surprisingly, I have never had to do that. The walls in the kits I have built have always been completely separated. The little "sprues" that hold the walls to the carrier seemed a little stubborn to me. My question to George (or anyone else) is how to best do that? Just be careful with a single edge razor blade? X-acto knife? Some other way? A bit embarrassing, actually - I have watched scratchbuilding videos where people cut out entire walls with what seems to be less effort than it took me to break a few of those nubs. (Yes, I started with a fresh razor blade.)

Would appreciate any insights.

Vince
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 28, 2019, 12:00:28 PM
Hi Vince,
Wonderful to hear you are back in the game!

For the task you mention, and for most of my other soft material cutting needs, I swear by a NEW X-acto #1 blade in a standard blade handle.  Reward yourself at the start of every kit with a new blade, and don't be afraid to install a new blade anytime you feel a little dullness creeping in.

Lots of modelers also like straight-edge razor blades to cut out walls & parts.  It's mostly personal preference, I think.  I like the pencil-like handle of an X-acto--I feel it gives me more control.

Most walls will separate easily with a few cuts. For stubborn or thick attachments, make multiple cuts with firm, steady pressure.

For separating plastic parts from sprues, I use a sprue cutter, which is a tool specially made to make clean, flush cuts.  However a razor knife or blade will also work. 

For safety, try to remember to put the cap back on the razor knife when done. 

I hope you post pics of your Bandits Roost build. This kit packs a lot of fun and I am having a ball with it.

Best,
(Opa) George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: deemery on December 28, 2019, 01:25:16 PM
When separating laser cut walls, etc from the carrier sheets, I find it works best to cut on both sides.  Start on one side, score through the little bit of material that connects the part to the rest of the sheet.  Then flip it over and cut through on the other side.  This prevents splintering and gets a quicker and cleaner cut. 

dave
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: vinceg on December 28, 2019, 01:34:36 PM
Hi Vince,
Wonderful to hear you are back in the game!

For the task you mention, and for most of my other soft material cutting needs, I swear by a NEW X-acto #1 blade in a standard blade handle.  Reward yourself at the start of every kit with a new blade, and don't be afraid to install a new blade anytime you feel a little dullness creeping in.

Lots of modelers also like straight-edge razor blades to cut out walls & parts.  It's mostly personal preference, I think.  I like the pencil-like handle of an X-acto--I feel it gives me more control.

Most walls will separate easily with a few cuts. For stubborn or thick attachments, make multiple cuts with firm, steady pressure.

For separating plastic parts from sprues, I use a sprue cutter, which is a tool specially made to make clean, flush cuts.  However a razor knife or blade will also work. 

For safety, try to remember to put the cap back on the razor knife when done. 

I hope you post pics of your Bandits Roost build. This kit packs a lot of fun and I am having a ball with it.

Best,
(Opa) George

Thanks, George. I just did a quick look on the Internet and can't find any #1 blades. I found #2 blades -- looks like a heavy duty version of the #11 which makes sense, but no #1s. Didn't even see anything on xacto.com. Do you have a reference?

Also, I forgot all about sprue cutters. It is my go to tool for plastic parts but it didn't even occur to me to try that. Might give it a shot.

Yes, the kit looks like a blast. I won't be taking on anything as ambitious as you are doing with the bashing for dramatic elevation changes. Instead, I think I am looking to pretty much follow what Doug did in the show model. Modest elevation increases from front to back to increase visibility of the rear structures and help the overall scene composition somewhat.

I have to say that FOS kits are quite different from the FSM and SRMW kits I previously built. Much less in terms of documentation. I think it will be good enough - will probably even eventually appreciate the brevity, but I sure wouldn't want this to be the first craftsman kit I ever built. And, how super handy that you are blazing the trail in front of me! I am definitely benefiting from your posts.

I will probably post pics in my overall Monee thread (wherever that is). Won't be for a couple weeks, I think, as my iMac is in the shop for service. So, my regular computer rig is not quite as powerful as usual.

thx,
Vince
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: vinceg on December 28, 2019, 01:39:39 PM
When separating laser cut walls, etc from the carrier sheets, I find it works best to cut on both sides.  Start on one side, score through the little bit of material that connects the part to the rest of the sheet.  Then flip it over and cut through on the other side.  This prevents splintering and gets a quicker and cleaner cut. 

dave

Thanks, Dave. I thought I tried that too. Still didn't get that "feel" that wood fibers were being cut with each pass. Almost like the laser cutting process "petrified" the wood in some way.

I'm probably just imagining it. Been out of circulation for several months and maybe a little fearful as I'm just getting back on the horse.....
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost--Oops, I meant #11 blades
Post by: Opa George on December 28, 2019, 02:19:04 PM
Vince, my apologies, it is #11 blades I use most of all.  My mistake, I don't think there are #1 blades.
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: JimF on December 28, 2019, 04:50:07 PM
Vince, welcome back to fun :)

I use the basic #11 blade for quite a bit of tasks, but for cutting the tiny connections between a part and the surrounding material, I use either a single edge razor blade or, a Xacto #17 chisel blade. If I use the #17, I place the bevel facing away from the actual part.

You will have to try different ways, before you find which you prefer. Just be careful cutting, the main thing.

Jim
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Dave K. on December 28, 2019, 08:24:04 PM
Been religiously following and enjoying...just not posting much (you know the drill...posting issues). Really coming along great!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on December 31, 2019, 03:04:00 PM
Thanks very much, Dave. Very happy to have you looking in.

I have plenty of time later to finish the scenery & road details in front of the millworks, and decided I want to move on to the next structure in this kit, the enamel works. But to do that, I need to place the partially worked diorama on my layout. Below are two pictures of the permanent home for Bandits Roost, on the summit above the inlet. The Rust Rock Falls complex will be located on the other side of the summit.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-311219145058.jpeg)

At the moment it appears to be floating on air, resting as it is on some wood blocks. The actual diorama base is not yet fixed in place. I will need to bring it back to the workbench once the enamel works is ready to install, and for additional scenicking.

The structures on the inlet are from the Builders in Scale kits "The Wharf" and "The Waterfront." This image is taken from the level of the inlet, looking uphill at the summit.  Sorry for the glare of the camera flash.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-311219145140.jpeg)

Below are the main walls of the enamel works, laid out and ready to brace. These are the main structure walls, with the tower and loading dock addition.  The annex, the power house and the conveyer shed are not shown below. I'll work with those structures once the mill is substantially complete.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-311219145226.jpeg)

All for now.
--Opa George

Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 02, 2020, 01:55:19 PM
Yesterday I braced all the walls per the kit-supplied diagram, using extra bracing as needed.  As the frieze boards on the tower are to be finished in the same color as the walls, I glued them in place before bracing.  I allowed everything to dry overnight.

Prepping the walls for staining took quite a while. I am going for a relatively high degree of wear and tear, so I spent a good two hours in applying distressing marks. I used a ponce wheel for nail holes, then spent most of my time lifting boards with a razor knife. I finished with both a file card and a welder's brush for extra wood grain.

After distressing the walls, I applied Hunterline Blue Gray quite liberally and applied weight as they dried. Normally I would not use the blue-gray stain for a base coat, but as the wall colors will be a pale gray-blue, I thought it was appropriate.  At the bottom is some 1/16th stock, stained the same color, for use as corner trim.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-020120131225-42302488.jpeg)

Below are the same walls after sponge painting with a loose mix of craft acrylic "Arctic Blue" and "Pale Gray."  I know it looks somewhat like a pastel or baby blue in the pictures.  Weathering will tone that down as we go along.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-020120131225-423391237.jpeg)

Next up are the paper Enamel Works signs--one of the signature looks of this kit. They are to appear as if painted on, and as they are very long and require a good deal of patience and precision to get in place, I thought I would document my technique.  Prior to applying the signs, I sprayed the reverse of all walls with a good coat of Rustoleum flat black or dark gray primer and let dry.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-020120131225-42340530.jpeg)

I laid each sign face down on newspaper and brushed it liberally with water. I immediately brushed on white glue, covering it completely and working it into the water to coat every bit of the back side of the sign. Using tweezers, I carefully positioned the sign at the top of each wall. The water/glue coat is pretty forgiving and allows a minute or two of work time.

One satisfied with the position, and making very sure it lined up well along the horizontal clapboards, being very straight and true, I began to blot it down with a dry work rag.  It is important to start by GENTLY dabbing and blotting. Do not rub or scrub. You will see the impression of the clapboards underneath begin to show through.  Check your alignment at this point--it is still possible to make minor positioning adjustments if needed.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-020120131226-4234158.jpeg)

Continue blotting along the entire length of the sign. Go back along and blot harder, pushing down firmly against the surface. Again, do not move the rag horizontally along the sign, as it is still wet and fragile and may tear. Stop when the clapboards beneath are fairly distinct and the sign no longer looks "wet."

Start at the top of either corner and begin pulling the tip of a toothpick along the underside of each clapboard.  Do not apply much pressure, only enough so that you can begin to see the clapboard edge become more distinct. I even twirl the toothpick as I pull it along to avoid catching and tearing the paper.  Blot up any glue that oozes out from the sides or ends.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-020120131226-423422038.jpeg)

After multiple passes with the toothpick, the clapboards beneath the sign will become quite distinct. Using the same painting sponge with which I painted the walls, I very gently and lightly dabbed over the sign in the equivalent of a dry-brushing.  Below are the results so far.  It is still slightly wet, but once it dries thoroughly, I will lightly sand over the entire sign to represent more wear at the clapboard edges.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-020120131308.jpeg)

Next major bit is installation of the windows.

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 02, 2020, 04:36:30 PM
Time to install some windows, and there are a lot of them.

For this part, I am only working with the plastic Tichy windows supplied. There will also be laser cut doors and windows, but I'll work with those next session.

I spray-paint primed the gray plastic windows with Rustoleum Camo Sand for a base "wood" color. Typically I sponge paint the plastic cast windows with my desired color, but decided to try something different with these.  To simulate a faded, peeling paint, I very lightly oversprayed all of the primed windows with Rustoleum flat white. I held the can further away and used as light a coat as I could manage. I like the result. On really close inspection, the completed window assemblies still look as if they have faded, peeling paint.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-020120162512-42343937.jpeg)

I like wood glue to attach the plastic windows to the wood wall. Once all were installed, I cut out acetate and applied it to the inside of all windows with liquid plastic cement. It was a little tedious considering the large number of windows--and laser cut acetate was not included for the plastic windows--but in the end it looks good. 
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-020120162512-42345968.jpeg)

Next up: adding window shades, more signs on the walls, and the white trim.

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on January 02, 2020, 05:48:29 PM
Great modeling and color George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: deemery on January 02, 2020, 06:01:02 PM
I've been using Deluxe Materials "Super 'Phatic" glue for styrene to wood.  This is the same basic kind of glue as wood glue (PVA), only a lot stronger.  Deluxe has been at Springfield the last 2 years, so I've had a chance to talk to them about their product line.   You can get this stuff at Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/DELUXE-MATERIALS-Super-Phatic-DLMAD21/dp/B0047YMZBC  Strongly recommended!


dave
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 02, 2020, 07:04:46 PM
Thanks for the kinds words, Curt, and thanks for the tip on the specialty glue, Dave. I'm always looking for good glues and can see where that may come in handy for certain troublesome joints.  I'll give it a try.

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: sdrees on January 02, 2020, 07:23:25 PM
The walls turned out just great George as did your signs
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on January 02, 2020, 07:57:11 PM
Looking good, George.

I would love to see a close up of a window showing the result of the new painting technique you used - if possible.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 03, 2020, 08:29:41 AM
Thanks, Steve and Mark.  Here is a close-up of a section of one wall.
--Opa George
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-030120082701.jpeg)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Oldguy on January 03, 2020, 10:55:37 AM
Good looking build.  The sign is really good.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: jerryrbeach on January 03, 2020, 10:57:37 AM
George,

Looks great!  Thanks for posting the techniques you used to get this far.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ACL1504 on January 03, 2020, 11:37:24 AM
George,

The windows turned out great, I'll try that technique one day. Love the walls and sign as well.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on January 03, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
One hell of a nice looking wall, sign & windows!!


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on January 03, 2020, 01:56:33 PM
Thanks, George.

I'll give that a try.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 03, 2020, 04:03:38 PM
I've mostly finished the walls for the enamel works. Trim was added to the freight door openings and walls where indicated in the instructions. The remaining laser cut doors and windows were added pretty much per the instructions--no problems encountered. I added a few details as well as window shades (off white for the main building and industrial green for the entrance shed in the back).
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-030120154810-423841805.jpeg)

Time to put the walls up!  I sanded the corners of certain walls, per the detailed instructions, and then attached the first two walls. I had previously cut out the full-size wall plan template in order to lay out my diorama board, and found it came in very handy here for alignment. The walls are NOT glued to the plan.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-030120154810-423851946.jpeg)

Another wall, and I used the roof on top to make sure my alignment was consistent.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-030120154810-42386749.jpeg)

The final three walls are attached.  Again, the plan at the bottom and the roof at top are used to check proper alignment and angles. Neither the paper plan at the bottom, nor the roof at top are attached.  Note that I spray painted the roof dark gray, and will aponge paint the edge and overhanging underside with white to match the trim when it is time to attach it. But for now, I am letting everything dry completely.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-030120154810-42387603.jpeg)

Here is a view of the rear. The entrance shed is aligned with the right wall, even though it appears in the photo to be angled.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-030120154810-42388835.jpeg)

So far, so good!  I thought this main building would be a little more complicated, but it has been a surprisingly easy build to this point.  But I think the roof, with all of its dormers, may be where the challenge comes in. We will see.

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on January 03, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Looks awesome.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 04, 2020, 05:26:12 PM
Thanks, Curt.

I sponge painted the edge and underside of the roof base with my trim white, and glued in place. That allowed me to add in the final three tower walls.  While that dried, I gathered the pieces for the roof and dormer spacers (white pieces).  In addition to the roof top, there are 16 side spacers and 4 rear spacers.  Fortunately, the rear spacers are larger and easily enough to distinguish.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-040120171537.jpeg)

Assembling the roof with the dormer spacers was easy.  I first sanded the spacer bottoms and sides, to remove the slight spur from the carrier sheets. Then, following directions, I glued the four rear spacers in place, then the 16 side spacers in place.  Here is where I varied from the directions: I did not wait for the spacers to dry before adding the top roof.  I glued it in place right away, making sure all tabs fit properly, then I used the rear dormer wall (representing the widest part of the dormer) to test fit the space that would house the dormers.  I am glad I did this, as I found two that would have been too tight, and was able to adjust the spacing before they dried.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/779-040120171629.jpeg)

Next up: building the ten dormers.

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 05, 2020, 11:52:17 AM
I'm getting ready to build the ten dormers for the Enamel Works. Below are the clapboard sides and the front window wall. I gave all a wash with Hunterline Light Gray, then, after they dried, a sponge painting with the same color used on the main structure walls (mix of craft Acrylic "Arctic Blue" and "Light Gray.").  Also shown is a length of 1/16th strip wood for the trim, distressed and washed with Hunterline Light Gray and sponge painted with craft acrylic white.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-050120114010.jpeg)

I either misplaced or ran out of the needed size of strip wood supplied with the kit, but always try to have extra stock of the most-used sizes on hand: That is 1/8th inch square for bracing, 1/16th square for trim, and something close to either a 2x8 or 2x10 in scale lumber.

Below are all the parts needed for the dormers, laid out and ready to assemble. The white cardboard bits to the right are the back of the dormer boxes, which will not be visible once the roof is on. For some reason, there are two extra supplied (unless they go with another dormer later---I have learned to never throw anything away until  totally done with a kit).
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-050120114046.jpeg)

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on January 05, 2020, 01:25:27 PM
You're flying along with this one, George!

Looking very nice.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 05, 2020, 04:24:15 PM
Thank you, Mark. I'm a little surprised myself at how easily this large structure is coming together.

Here are the ten dormers made up. Important construction note: the front wall has a top and a bottom. The bottom horizontal panel is taller than the top. This is a detail that might go unnoticed if you aren't paying attention.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-050120160516-423892181.jpeg)

Another note, the rear wall also has a top and bottom. Note how it fits flush at the bottom. If you install it upside down, it will hang beneath the side clapboard walls by about 1/32. beyond that, this is just a strengthening element and does not reach all the way to the top of the box.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-050120160516-42406765.jpeg)

In the photo below, all completed dormer assemblies, including the laser-cut window sashes, are installed on the roof between the spacers.  A few tips:
1.  Check multiple assemblies for fit as you go.  Despite my efforts to make sure all spacers were uniform, and all assembled dormers were uniform, a few just were too tight. I tried the same dormer with a different set of spacers and found a better fit, and at the same time found a "skinnier" dormer that would fit in between the "tight" spacers. 
2.   Only two dormers fit loose enough that I used glue. The remaining eight are installed without glue and I have no worries they will move or shift.
3.  For the tight fitting dormers, use a steady pressure to push them into place, making sure you are not applying pressure to the more delicate glued front wall/window sash.  They should sit flat and level to the roof at front and rear. The front of the dormer assembly should sit flush with the tip of the spacer.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-050120160517-4240789.jpeg)

To finish for the day, I applied the roof sections.  Gotta love a well-engineered laser-cut kit. Each of the three roof sections fit perfectly. I am letting everything dry thoroughly before beginning to shingle the roof.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-050120160517-42408122.jpeg)

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: JimF on January 09, 2020, 09:39:20 AM
Super impressive work, George, as always.

That hill climb would still scare me, walking LOL

Jim
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 09, 2020, 10:59:45 AM
Super impressive work, George, as always.

That hill climb would still scare me, walking LOL

Jim

Thanks much for the compliment, Jim.  This kit is tons of fun.  I need to post a pic of my shingle adventure. On my third day and not done yet. It is fiddly and somewhat tedious work getting them lined up around the ten dormers.

Yes, the hill is not a gentle one. My inspiration is from some of my favorite hillside towns: Harpers Ferry, WVA, Steelton, PA, and Shamokin, PA. All have some very steep driving and even walking roads.

Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ReadingBob on January 09, 2020, 01:22:28 PM
I love it when a plan comes together.  Or in this case a roof.  Great job illustrating the assembly and providing pictures.  I can easily see where applying the shingles would be very time consuming.  :o

I've been to Shamokin and Steelton.  There's also an interesting road that drops down into Mahanoy City.  Steep with a hairpin turn halfway down.  Lot's of fun in the winter.   :o  :o  :o
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on January 09, 2020, 01:48:32 PM
Looking good, George.

It looks like the kit is designed in a way that makes a difficult assembly fairly easy, although your experience is making a big difference too.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 09, 2020, 02:09:48 PM
Looking good, George.

It looks like the kit is designed in a way that makes a difficult assembly fairly easy, although your experience is making a big difference too.

Cheers, Mark.

Mark, thanks for that vote of confidence, but I must say the design of this kit is really efficient.  Funny that you mention that, though, as I do remember a step in a Builders-in-Scale kit (Tidewater Wharf) in which the instruction book warns about the next step, noting "we'll probably get hate mail over this next step..."   Indeed it was a bear to get through, but I persevered, despite losing about six dollars worth of religion!
--George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ACL1504 on January 09, 2020, 03:31:59 PM
George,

Great build and very informative tutorial on this one. That is going to be one fantastic looking roof. Love all the different angle.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 09, 2020, 07:55:31 PM
Thanks, Tom, for that note. Happy to provide the step-by-step.

So, hooray, they shingling is finally done.  Below is one side and a partial view of the entrance side of the building (which faces the rear of the diorama). I have some trimming and cleaning up to do, but the main work is done.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-090120194541.jpeg)

And here is the other side. I got faster as I went along. One thing I discovered was that the three spaces between the four center dormers on each long side is exactly 8 shingles long. Once I knew that, I could cut strips and have them ready to go. That did speed things up a bit.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-090120194616.jpeg)

The center flat roof will get rolled roofing, as will the ten small dormer roofs. I'll be using a grayish black color. Then it will be on to constructing the top of the tower. I've been reading ahead in the instructions and that looks like fun.
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on January 10, 2020, 08:17:07 AM
Terrific modeling George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on January 10, 2020, 09:52:27 AM
Wow!!  Just getting caught up.  Beautiful modeling George.
Keep p the great work!!


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on January 10, 2020, 11:59:12 AM
George,
Just catching up on your project.  Amazing work.  I really like how everything is coming together.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 12, 2020, 09:16:32 AM
Thank you very much, Curt, Jerry and Bruce!  I appreciate the support!

Today's picture don't show a lot of dramatic progress--just small things. I added the mansard roof top trim. Lengths of 2x6 at the top of the shingles and 2x10s for cap boards. I applied the 2x6 lumber first, let it dry well and then sanded off the top angle to get a flat (albeit narrow) surface for the 2x10 cap board.  Had I not sanded, the edge of the 2x6, since it is applied on an angle, would have jutted up in spots like this:  ^
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-120120085819.jpeg)

The photo above also shows some additional details.  I devised a loading dock door bumper from scrap wood, and added a Model Tech wall exhaust vent to the wall. This side of the structure is actually the building main entrance, or front wall, although the opposite rear wall with the tower is more prominent in the diorama and kit pictures.

Speaking of the tower, I began constructing the tower base, seen weighted by a bottle of Floquil "Dust" that has survived. The base represents decorative molding and is achieved very simply by building up three squares. When dry, I will prime with gray and sponge paint white to match the other trim.

Below is a lower level shot of the structure "front" showing the newest work. It better shows how the mansard roof trim works together.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-120120085903.jpeg)

More roofing work coming up.
--Opa George

Below
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Oldguy on January 12, 2020, 10:22:14 AM
That looks superb.  I seem to have run out of superlatives.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on January 12, 2020, 06:51:17 PM
This is really looking fantastic, George!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 13, 2020, 05:22:50 AM
Thanks very much, Bob and Mark.
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on January 13, 2020, 08:09:40 AM
hey George:

That's coming along quite nicely. Like the colors and weathering.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ACL1504 on January 13, 2020, 10:47:13 AM
George,

I agree with the rest, this is turning out very nice.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Jerry on January 13, 2020, 11:13:40 AM
George just had to reply again.  That is so very well done your coloring is perfect.


Jerry
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 14, 2020, 08:08:26 PM
Karl, Tom and Jerry, I really appreciate the support. This kit is really fun!

Last evening I installed the rolled roofing on the main roof.  Today it is completely dry and ready to weather.  To the left you can see some of the parts for the tower.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-140120195747-425361524.jpeg)

Here is the main roof after weathering.  I used a small folded piece of 180 grit sandpaper to get the highly worn effect.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-140120195747-425461489.jpeg)

Below are some sub-assemblies of the tower.  The trim in laser cut, and is quite delicate. I bent one, but did not break it. Glued in place the bend is not noticeable.  The wooden gable ends are painted to match the main building siding.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-140120195747-42547259.jpeg)

Here are the assemblies in a trial fitting. No glue yet.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-140120195747-42548654.jpeg)

And here is the tower fully assembled, sans finial.  The pilot model clearly shows wire covering the seams, although that step is not mentioned in the instructions. I added lengths of piano wire in the rather large gutters between the sides and on top of the gables. It looks much better this way.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-140120195747-425491421.jpeg)

Here is the assembly with a base coat of paint.  Once dry, I will dry-brush with white to lighten it a little.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-140120195833.jpeg)

All for now...
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ReadingBob on January 15, 2020, 07:27:22 AM
Looks terrific so far!  Great job on, well, everything.   ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on January 15, 2020, 08:13:13 AM
Top notch modeling George. Everything looks terrific.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 16, 2020, 05:30:14 AM
Thanks very much, Bob and Curt.  I'll post a progress pic this evening. Last evening I dry-brushed the completed tower assembly with white and added some dirt and grime to the patina to mitigate the "fresh" look.  I stained and painted some stripwood for the rooftop stair access, but did not start assembling that yet.
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on January 17, 2020, 02:05:50 PM
That little roof came up great, George.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: carl b on January 17, 2020, 07:22:18 PM
Looking good George.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 18, 2020, 08:44:35 AM
Thanks for looking in, Mark and Carl.  I have quite a bit more work done but have been delaying posting pics until the forum is confirmed fixed.   Today should be a good work day with a snowstorm moving in, so will get something up a bit later.
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: rpdylan on January 18, 2020, 02:28:38 PM
really great modeling George, she's a beauty with all of those roof windows! Speaking of the roof, I love what you did with the black roof paper- very nice!
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 19, 2020, 01:10:44 PM
Here is a pic.

(http://)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 19, 2020, 01:17:40 PM
OK, I can't seem to imbed pics that I have uploaded from my Gallery, but I can attach them, so we'll go with that.

Below is where I am at with the Enamel Works. The tower is completely assembled and attached.  The rooftop sign with the laser-cut lettering is assembled and attached.  I was surprised at how small it was in relation to the gas station sign, but I guess being up on top of the tallest building, it does not have to be huge.  I also assembled and attached the rooftop access stairway. 

The next pic is just another angle.

The third pic shows the rooftop with extra details: accumulated leaves, some junk boards, a few windblown newspapers, and I attached the roofs to the ten dormers.  Next up will be attaching a side shed.  There is still a boiler room to build and attach as well.


Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: GPdemayo on January 20, 2020, 08:53:55 AM
Great progress George.....that was one complex roof system..... 8)
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 20, 2020, 04:24:16 PM
Thank you, Greg. It was a bit of a challenge, but I found by not rushing, it turned out quite well.

Here are some photos of the "side shed."  It is a 3-sided cardboard construction that tacks on to the side of the enamel works. The walls are finished as if sided in tarpaper.  I may have over-braced the interior, but as the cardboard is significantly less rigid than wood, I did not want to take any chances.

The wooden strips, probably equivalent to furring strips, came in a laser-cut form with adhesive backing. This made application much easier than glue.

For the roof, I put an underlayer of rolled roofing under the corrugated metal, then allowed for part of it to show through.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 20, 2020, 04:32:53 PM
With regard to my previous post, I should mention that instructions call for steps to be added below the side shed panel door.  I have some but the paint is still drying.

Next up is the boiler house, which also tacks on to the corner of the enamel works.  This was one of the most interesting constructions I have encountered in a kit for a while.  The top portions of three of the walls are extremely delicate, and even though I thought I was being extra careful, still broke one.  It glued back together well enough, but in the final joining phase it made slightly imperfect fit due to my repair job.

You'll notice one of the walls does not seem to fit well with the upper window portion.  I don't know why that is.  The instructions and the pilot model do not reflect it, and I am sure I got the correct parts.  It seemed apparent to me that the top would need to be trimmed to size.  Deepening the mystery is a reference in the instructions to an odd-sized window.  I gathered that the trimming was to be done to the window frame end, but since enough regular sized windows were supplied, I choses to trim away from the solid panel end. You'll see in the finished wall photos what I mean.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 21, 2020, 07:55:22 PM
The boiler house went together easily. I sanded the edges that meet the enamel works walls to accommodate the angle, but otherwise no problem. 
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-210120194958-42564430.jpeg)

Below is another angle of this end of the structure.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-210120194958-425821263.jpeg)

Here is a top-down view to see how the entire enamel works looks. Sorry, a little blurry.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-210120194959-425831795.jpeg)

Next up is the Annex, a multi-story structure with lots of unusual features. 
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: mark dalrymple on January 22, 2020, 04:02:31 AM
Looking really great, George!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 22, 2020, 05:34:46 AM
Looking really great, George!

Cheers, Mark.

Thank you, Mark!
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Zephyrus52246 on January 22, 2020, 07:50:00 AM
Nice work.  The weathering is perfect.


Jeff
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 22, 2020, 07:36:50 PM
Nice work.  The weathering is perfect.

Jeff

Thanks much, Jeff. Very glad to have you looking over my shoulder.
Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 22, 2020, 07:41:24 PM
I'll come back to the enamel works before too long, when it is time to locate it next to the mill works buildings on the diorama base.

The final structure in the kit is the Annex, a multi-story, multi-material building with lots of visual interest. Below are the walls, identified and laid out.  It's always a relief to get to the end of a very large kit with no major parts or walls missing. Looks like everything is here.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-220120193516.jpeg)

I applied bracing and started to distress the walls with a card file and a welder's brush, and whatever else makes it look decrepit. I'm still working on that, and will need to lift clapboards and such, so a further photo later with that work.
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: JimF on January 23, 2020, 09:07:30 AM
Wow, you've really made progress while I was MIA, George.

AS usual, your build looks terrific, you definitely have a artist's bent.

Watching for more.

Jim
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: ACL1504 on January 23, 2020, 01:05:02 PM
George,

MIA here also. Wonderful job on the build. I've enjoyed the journey and will follow to the end.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on January 23, 2020, 05:23:00 PM
Hey Opa George:

You are doing a just beautiful job on this one. Keep those photos coming.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 24, 2020, 10:06:13 AM
Thank you, Karl, Tom and Jim.

I'll try to get a photo or two up this evening.  Last evening I finished scribing and distressing the Annex walls and got two types of weathering stain on: A & I and some Hunterline.  No paint yet. While they dried I started cleaning up a large box of castings I got from Railroad Kits at Timonium, and got so involved I never got to painting the wall.
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: postalkarl on January 25, 2020, 05:04:37 AM
Hey George:

You are quite welcome.

Karl
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: vinceg on January 25, 2020, 10:25:32 AM
George, your work looks great. And, now that I am also in the middle of building Bandit's Roost, I have to say that I have a whole new level of respect for your modeling skills. This is my first FOS kit. Instructions are "lean" to put it mildly. Having to fish around on multiple sheets for parts of the same building adds to the challenge.  If this were my first kit, I would be cooked. Definitely got spoiled with the guidance you get from an FSM or SRMW kit (and, I'm expecting the same from Sierra West). Part of growing up as a modeler, I reckon.

Cheers,
V
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 25, 2020, 11:56:55 AM
George, your work looks great. And, now that I am also in the middle of building Bandit's Roost, I have to say that I have a whole new level of respect for your modeling skills. This is my first FOS kit. Instructions are "lean" to put it mildly. Having to fish around on multiple sheets for parts of the same building adds to the challenge.  If this were my first kit, I would be cooked. Definitely got spoiled with the guidance you get from an FSM or SRMW kit (and, I'm expecting the same from Sierra West). Part of growing up as a modeler, I reckon.

Cheers,
V

Vince, thanks for the words of encouragement. Please ask if you get to a mystery or confusing part. 
Your note that walls are spread out over various sheets is quite true. I've come to approach the really big FOS kits kind of like a puzzle that I have to solve before starting construction. Strange to say, I have come to rather enjoy the hunt.

As far as the extra steps or detailing that might be glossed over in the instructions, my best advice is to go to the FOS Scale Models Facebook page and search for the photo sets of Bandits Roost.  I saved every one I could find to my local computer hard drive.  Opened to their full resolution in any photo viewer, they reveal tons of close-up detail from just about every angle.

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 26, 2020, 07:08:12 PM
Here are the walls to the Annex painted, braced and ready for doors, windows and detailing.  The four at the top will have individual boards applied, so they require no finishing at the moment.  I went with white and yellow ochre for the colors.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-260120190238-42700125.jpeg)

Here are the same walls with windows, glazing, shades and a few signs.  I'll start assembling tomorrow.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-260120190238-42701572.jpeg)

--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: Opa George on January 27, 2020, 08:00:16 PM
Here are the annex walls in sub assemblies.  The smallest section is the first floor. The task board assembly is waiting to be covered in 2x10 boards.  I stained them with three different shades of Hunterline stain: Blue Gray, Light Gray and Driftwood, plus a fourth batch in my own A&I solution.  Most were then sponge painted with white on one side only, and one strip painted a mossy green on one side.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-270120194643-427091238.jpeg)

All of the sub assemblies now together into the three-story annex.  The small first floor goes flush against the "Vallon Paint" side. I marked a tiny centerline mark on both the first floor and the second floor to line them up.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-270120194643-42711831.jpeg)

The other side.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-270120194644-42712447.jpeg)

This end faces the reservoir (back of the diorama).
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-270120194644-42713315.jpeg)

This side faces the front of the diorama.  Vallon Paint will connect flush to the right wall.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-270120194644-427142309.jpeg)

A top-down view.  I added some black construction paper to overlap between the second and third floor joint underneath the individual board assembly, to guard against any light leaks.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/779-270120194728.jpeg)

Tomorrow I'll put a roof on.
--Opa George
Title: Re: FOS Bandits Roost
Post by: PRR Modeler on January 27, 2020, 08:20:32 PM
Awesome modeling George.