The Modelers Forum

Station Stop => Layout Tours => Topic started by: mark dalrymple on July 04, 2019, 05:24:25 PM

Title: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 04, 2019, 05:24:25 PM
Shadowlands and Tellynott

"From the sea for as far inland as the eye can reach, nothing is to be seen but the summits of these rocky mountains which seem to lay so near to one another as to not admit any valleys between them."  Captain James Cook describing Fiordland on his voyage of discovery in 1770.

Jacksons Bay was as far south as one could go along the West Coast of New Zealand before these sheer fjords made the terrain impassible.  It was beautifully located, with the steep slopes of bush clad mountains falling to the coast and enclosed by the southern heads and northern bluffs falling right to the Tasman Sea.  The brave men who attempted to make a life in these stunning but harsh lands were known as 'the far downers'.

As the gold rush of the 1860's gained momentum, the potential of Jacksons Bay as a future hub of the West coast grew.  It was seen as the only real port on the west coast of the South Island and the nearest to Australia, as well as being close to Haast Pass, the lowest pass across the Southern Alps.  The site was surveyed in 1874 and a report sent to the minister of immigration singing its praises, but also stressing that the wise choice of settlers and the construction of a jetty running into deep water were paramount to the settlements success.

Photo 1 - map showing the surveyed plan of Jacksons Bay (Arawata).  A note was added to the map stating that roads may have to be altered slightly to accommodate changes in grade! https://polishhistorynewzealand.org/jacksons-bay/   

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 04, 2019, 06:06:13 PM
Investigations were undertaken into the surrounding area to ascertain the bounties available.  From the sea blue cod, kingfish, tuna and crayfish were all found in abundance while the local rivers and streams produced beautiful trout and salmon along with a plentiful supply of whitebait.  the native timber supply was diverse with matai, rimu, totora and kaihikatea all growing in the general area of Jacksons Bay.  In the headlands to the south limestone was discovered while coal deposits were found between Smoothwater Bay and Homing Cove.  South of Arawata clay of extremely high quality and suitable for brick-making was discovered and, with the abundant rainfall and rich loamy clay soil, there was potential for farming.

The government of the day circulated pamphlets describing a land of milk and honey, of chocolate brown soil and beaches littered with gold nuggets.  Free passage was offered to any man who dared to be rich and land was offered at very reasonable rates.  In 1875 the first settlers began to arrive, and the number quickly grew to 600 including 46 children.  The beautiful picture painted by the government was in stark contrast to reality and the first settlers to Jacksons Bay found "a swamp infested with sandflies and mosquitoes, lashed by biblical rains and bordered by a sea of uncommon severity".

Despite the caution of the Superintendent of Westland and the Chief Surveyor, many of the settlers sent to Jacksons Bay had no experience in agriculture or fishing but were instead men unable to find work elsewhere.  A timber mill was built under the assurance that a deep-water jetty would be built, but while the jetty was partially constructed, the pin was pulled and it was never completed.  In fact, a jetty at Jacksons Bay was not built until the late 1930's.  Through governmental neglect the settlement was destined for failure from its very beginnings and by 1927 only nine families and four single men remained in the area - the hardest of the hard - who toiled the land in harsh conditions until slowly, over the years, it relented.

Shadowlands and Tellynott is my story of what might have happened if the jetty at Jacksons Bay had been built when originally intended.  Taking the surveyors plan as a rough guide, over the next 50 years a haphazard town was constructed clinging to the side of the steep hills surrounding the bay.  A rail line was put in to tap into the local resources and bring their spoils to the wharf.  Industries sprung up to process the raw materials when possible.  The gold, of course, did not last, but while it did the town saw vast wealth and boomed.  When it was gone there were enough natural resources in the area to keep things ticking over.  By 1932, when our scene is set, Tellynott is in the midst of a deep depression.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
 
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: PaulS on July 04, 2019, 07:18:27 PM
Simply wonderful back story Mark....   And so looking forward to following along as you bring life to your version of the Shadowlands and Tellynott...


--Paul
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: S&S RR on July 04, 2019, 10:05:45 PM
Mark


Fantastic start.  I can't wait to see where you go with this.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: cuse on July 05, 2019, 06:41:13 AM
I like a good theme. Nice work.


John
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: ReadingBob on July 05, 2019, 07:10:21 AM
This will be fun to follow along.  Thanks for sharing!   :)
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 06, 2019, 01:39:47 AM
Hi guys.

Thanks for the comments Paul, John, John and Bob - very much appreciated.

I've been meaning to start a fresh layout thread here for ages - I even thought I had!  I hope to get things going in a bit of a sensible order before I start uploading photos of the various projects ongoing at the moment.

Reading up about the history of Jacksons Bay has been very interesting.  There were some fantastic historical accounts...

...women carrying 25kg (55 pound) bags of flour 10 miles through the bush from the closest store in order to be able to make bread, a visiting dentist removing 96 teeth in a single day, a musterer taking a bottle of whisky and a knife into the bush to remove his own tooth, appendectomies taking place on kitchen tables

...any women who had a barrel to catch rain water from the roof was said by her neighbours to be living in luxury!

It sure makes you think we've got it easy!

Anyway - hoping to get a bit more on the progress of S&T (Shadowlands and Tellynott) uploaded over the weekend.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: ACL1504 on July 06, 2019, 05:18:41 AM
Mark,

This has really been fun to follow. I'm still reading the Polish History part and looking forward to your future updates.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: GPdemayo on July 06, 2019, 09:13:11 AM
What a grand story and concept Mark.....I'll be looking in on this on.  :)
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 06, 2019, 04:23:14 PM
Thanks very much Tom and Greg!

Tom - I put the link in mainly to reverence where the map came from - but if you are finding the history enjoyable...I have pasted my favourite link below.

https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/spring-in-haast/

The information on the Jacksons Bay history is told by an account of fourth generation 'Far Downer' Neroli Nolan and starts part way down the page with the words 'I wake up' in bold.  It is a colourful account filled with great stories and cold hard truth.  Enjoy!

More - hopefully later today, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 06, 2019, 10:54:59 PM
Hi guys.

Well I best begin with the site of the home of Shadowlands and Tellynott. 

In August 2017 we moved to a rural address.  11 acres all up - about five in garden, four in paddocks and 2 in driveway and shelter belts.  We have big plans to develop the garden slowly over the next 2 - 3 decades.  The property came with a large barn - in pretty good nick and of pretty high quality for a barn - but which had been let go to the birds - literally!  I worked around the barn over a period of a few months, wearing all the safety gear, permanently blocking up all the bird entry points and evicting my feathered friends as I went.  The fact that I took a few months to do it seemed to help a lot, as most of the birds saw the end was near and relocated themselves.  I spent many hours scrubbing down the droppings with hot water and disinfectant from all the studs and trusses, and clearing out all the old nests.  I had to be very vigilant over this time, closing doors the instant I was through, or the birds would make a quick attempt to regain ground.  Once cleaned and debirded, I started work on converting the two center bays into the future home of the S&T.

Pictured below are:

Photo 1 - The barn from the front
Photo 2 - a close up of the area to eventually be railway real estate
Photo 3 - the back of the barn
Photo 4 - a close up of the railway real estate.
Photo 5 - the plan of the two center rooms.

The interior door was moved closer to the wall and a beam installed at the opposite end to allow flow between the two rooms.  The area under this beam has been temporarily framed and insulated while I concentrate on Tellynott.  This will all become clearer as I work through the layouts development.

More soon, Cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 07, 2019, 02:24:04 AM
Hi guys.

Fitting the existing partially completed layout into the new space and the new design has been a ongoing task.  I'm still a long way from finished - but the basic concept of Shadowlands is pretty firm and Tellynott is mostly set in concrete.

I wanted several things in a layout.  Firstly I wanted only one scene to be viewed at a time.  This meant that although the barn has 3.4 meter (11'4") ceilings, that a double decker layout was not an option.  I considered a mushroom style, but soon discovered that this didn't really gain any extra space but did create a whole heap of work.  Paired with this was the fact that we have now experienced two major earthquakes in Canterbury and I wanted my entire layout to be both sectional and on wheels so that if we do get another event the whole thing can be transported without too much fuss.  I also discovered that things on wheels and not attached to walls cope far better and obtain far less damage than those without these virtues.  They seem to move with the shaking.  Further, I wanted each section to be completely self contained, with its own attached backdrop and ceiling.  This set up a few challenges which I had to address moving forwards. 

With this one scene at a time idea in mind, I also wanted to split Tellynott and Shadowlands visually - both to keep the contrasting urban and mountain scenes separate and to help with the illusion of vast distance.  I did my usual trick of cutting out a paper plan of my existing L-shaped layout and moving it around a plan of the model room(s).  Again - this developed over time - but the purchase of a fantastic book of pencil sketches of Wellington city scenes - 'the Compleat cityscapes by David McGill and Grant Tilly' swayed my decision to add a peninsula filled with residential housing to Tellynott - the suburb of Inglletown (anagram of Wellington - Oh - Tellynott takes a lot of inspiration from the suburb of Lyttelton - of which Tellynott is an anagram).  Having backdrops and ceilings on all the layout sections meant that I could use the layout backs as a room division wall without adding a wall, and this is what I chose to do.

With the layout room I started by gutting the interior of shelving, built in workbench, makeshift lining etc.  I then cleaned and washed everything down.  I put plywood on the division truss between the model rooms and the implement shed.  I installed ceiling battens.  I insulated all the walls (including the division wall - being aware that this was a long term project and it might be some time before I start work on Shadowlnds) and the ceiling.  I lined all the walls and the ceiling with plaster board or structural plywood sheeting.  I stopped the plasterboard, put strips of pine up the plywood seams, skirted and painted. PHEEW!

Photo 1 - shows the original L-shaped layout
Photo 2 - shows the expanded Tellynott layout.  There were some slight changes to the shape as I moved forwards.
Photo 3 - shows Shadowlands and Tellynott.  You can see how removing a section of the division wall will let me display the whole area of Shadowlands behind the back wall of Tellynott as one large vista.
Photo 4 - shows work on the room - here I am installing insulation.
Photo 5 - show the room nearing completion and the large removed section of division wall.  Ceilings are lined.
Photo 6 - nearly done!

More soon, cheers, Mark.
 
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: Janbouli on July 07, 2019, 05:05:58 AM
Very nice  train room, if I weren't as far as I am with my layout I would probably break it down and start all over with the room.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: DennisBourey on July 07, 2019, 06:49:26 AM
Mark, I love the track plan, Very busy...Dennis
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: madharry on July 07, 2019, 07:29:47 AM
Good luck with the layout Mark. You have really been busy with the clear up. I've explored that coastline a couple of times and it is pretty awesome.

Mike
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: GPdemayo on July 07, 2019, 09:49:03 AM
Looking forward to seeing it come together in it's new home Mark. Good looking train room and great planning.  8)
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 08, 2019, 12:20:01 AM
Hi guys, great to have you all following along!

Janbouli - I was very restrained when we moved in here and kept all my models and dioramas in their boxes until I had finished the room and the bench-work.  This was extremely difficult for me - but I knew if I got things out I would just be double handling.

Dennis - yes - I love busy!  Especially when it comes to urban scenes.  That's one of the reasons I love modelling at grade - space is always at a premium and things get crammed in almost on top of each other.

Mike - yes - we have to remind ourselves that if it wasn't for all the earthquakes we wouldn't have that lovely mountain range falling to the Tasman Sea.  There are several towns on the West Coast that sit right on top of the Alpine fault line.

Gregory - thanks.  I enjoy the planning, and it was also nice to do the whole room myself.

Photo 1 - here I am trying some 1:1 scale modelling - checking out the views, feel and spaces between and around Tellynott.
Photos 2 and 3 - My father gave me a hand with this one.  We used box section and plate section which he welded together and drilled holes in using a template to make 'shoes'.  I then filed and painted the shoes and doctored the timber legs to a tight fit, hammered the shoes pictured in the first photo onto the legs and drilled and bolted these and then bolted the wheels to the 'shoes'.  Two fixed at one end and two swivel at the other end of each layout section.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: DennisBourey on July 08, 2019, 07:13:56 AM
Mark, I like that idea of the leg's...... Dennis
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: PRR Modeler on July 08, 2019, 09:07:18 AM
Very ingenious Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: postalkarl on July 08, 2019, 11:13:31 AM
Hey Mark:

beautiful job.

Karl
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 09, 2019, 03:22:45 AM
Thanks guys!

Curt and Dennis - The wheels worked very well.  They also made moving the sections around while working on the backdrops and ceilings so much easier!

Karl - Thanks so much for the compliment.

The next step was to build the bench-work.  I started by adding the backdrop and ceilings to the two sections which made up the original L-shaped Tellynott layout.  I cantilevered the ceilings 8 inches past the layout edge to give good lighting at the front of the layout.  I used 20mm clear pine and 2.75 and 4.5mm thick MDF.  Once this was completed I built the two new layout benck-work sections and added the ceiling sections.  I had to make up the corner sections as separate pieces because of the difficulty, complexity and weight involved.  The corners, because of their construction, prevented sag at the front of the layout ceilings because to pull down on one end meant the opposite end had to lift up.  Once all the sections were completed with their fascia and all bolted together they were very self supporting and apart from the ceiling over the peninsula (which I always intended to hang from the ceiling of the room) I deemed only one other part of the layout ceiling in need of extra support by way of a chain from the room ceiling.

Photo 1 - one of the corner sections.  I built the ceiling and walls as one piece.  Slots were cut in the layout bench top and the 2x1 pine studs slipped down these until the backdrop met with the bench top.  There was a lot of careful cutting and measuring.
Photo 2 - one of the new bench-work sections completed.
Photo 3 - a view from above showing the corner section fitted.
Photo 4 - the peninsula ceiling section held at the right height with some makeshift props.
Photo 5 - the props removed and the ceiling section has been bolted to the division wall section and hung from the room ceiling by chains, D-bolts and turnbuckles.  I beefed up the ceiling load points with extra timber work and brackets as required.
Photo 6 - a view of the hanging peninsula ceiling from the other direction.

More soon, cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: cuse on July 09, 2019, 07:03:47 AM
Wow...beautiful bones for your layout. The woodwork on the "ceiling" is really great and I meant to comment on those wheels...very nicely conceived to be sturdy. Those look much more reliable than most bolt-on cabinet wheels. Well done!
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: DennisBourey on July 09, 2019, 07:39:31 AM
Mark, Your moving along fast. Love the woodwork hanging.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: PRR Modeler on July 09, 2019, 09:18:04 AM
Awesome woodworking.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: S&S RR on July 09, 2019, 04:43:44 PM
Mark


Fantastic work and thread.  Thank you for sharing it with us.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 09, 2019, 09:52:09 PM
Thanks for the responses guys.

Thanks Cuse - no - no chance of those wheels coming off.

Dennis - I am cheating a bit regards the speed - it isn't all done in real time.  I'm not John Siekirk!

Curt - thanks.  I enjoy the woodwork - although I was pleased when this section came to an end!

Thanks John - you are my biggest motivation for getting things done.  Every time I check in on your thread I feel lazy!

Well following on we have a couple of aerial shots.  I must admit - I do like these shots.  They do show well how much work was involved.  All those 'fins' you see across the top are made up of 4.5mm MDF nailed and glued to 45 by 20mm pine studs in a big capital L shape (upside down).  The studs go down behind the backdrop about 300mm past the layout bench-work where angled timber braces help keep them at 90 degrees.  This paired with the self supporting corner sections kept things surprisingly rigid.

Photo 1&2 - the layout from above.
Photo 3 - the chains, D-bolts and shackles attached.
Photo 4 - this photo shows the space left over at the back of this room behind Tellynott.  This will eventually be entirely filled with the mountain scenery of Shadowlands.
Photo 5&6 - these show the peninsula with extra framework installed underneath for a turnaround loop and hidden sidings.  There was also quite a bit of extra timber needed here for the bench-work fascia.  This under bench track-work came about with some changes in the design of Shadowlands - which I will go into more detail when I expand on the track plan.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: DennisBourey on July 09, 2019, 09:56:22 PM
Mark, Still impressive I like that walk in a lot. John is a great modeler and very helpful person to know. John does build fast though....Dennis
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 11, 2019, 04:08:47 PM
Thanks Dennis.  I think the walk in works well.  Viewed from above, with the ceiling fascia overhanging by 200mm (8"), the isle width looks much tighter than it actually is.  I think, from memory, the tightest point is a touch over 3', and the layout opens out to 4' at the end of the walk in.  I put in a lot of extra time and effort to keep the layout front flowing with nice curves.  I had to remember when designing the bench-work that any internal curves would have a radius reduced by 8" on the ceiling fascia.  I found I could bend the 2.75mm MDF around a 250mm (10") curve - so that put a limit on things.

Yes - John is a fantastic person to know.  In 2015 when my wife and I did a five week trip to the USA John was good enough to liaise with George Sellios for me and make introductions.  George was then kind enough to let me choose the Saturday of the month that suited our travel plans for his open house.  It was great to meet George and to see the F&SM in the flesh - which exceeded all expectations.  I was also lucky enough to meet some of the forum members (including John) at the Scranton expo.  For me that was two things ticked off my bucket list.  I took many photos of the F&SM and sent them all to John who then uploaded many of them to the F&SM thread.  I also had a great time at the expo and came home armed with some great craftsman kits - including some that had been on my wish list for years.  Oh - and Utah blew my mind!

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: S&S RR on July 11, 2019, 10:22:20 PM
You guys are making me feel lazy - I'm sitting at my cabin in Northern Michigan tonight "relaxing" and doing some design work for the layout. I spent the day fishing with a dear friend - we did a lot of fishing but not much catching, today.  I'm retired now so I spend my time doing what I choose to do and that is usually working on my layout. Correction "what my wife lets me do".  ;D  Mark a trip to your side of the world is on my bucket list - maybe when you have your layout further along.  You sure are off to a wonderful start. It is amazing how many wonderful people I have met through this wonderful hobby. This forum is a great way to share what we are doing.  Please keep us up-to-date with your progress. I really enjoy your work. Do you have any return trips to the States planned?
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: DennisBourey on July 11, 2019, 10:27:12 PM
You lazy John??????????   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D NO WAY!!!!!!!! Dennis
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 11, 2019, 10:48:14 PM
Did you notice Dennis - even when John is relaxing in his cabin he is still working on the layout!

That sounds great, John.  I will look forward to a future visit here.  My wife and I have a good friend in Athens, Georgia whom we hope to visit in the not to distant future.  We would also like to catch up with Tampa Jim in Tampa, Florida.  Jim has visited us here twice now.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: DennisBourey on July 11, 2019, 11:16:47 PM
Mark, Yes he does. He's addicted for some unknown reason............ ;)
Dennis
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 12, 2019, 11:10:31 PM
Hi guys.

Moving forwards I wanted to clarify some of the overall planning and the changes that have so far come about.  Right from the very beginning of the idea to expand Tellynott and add a mountain scene there has been a problem with height.  The reason for this is that I wanted Tellynott to be viewed from almost eye level, whereas with Shadowlands I wanted to create a large height differential between the highest and lowest tracks.  As Tellynott is set on the water it needs to be at the lowest point of the layout (which it isn't).  As the track pierces the backdrop and enters Shadowlands it should enter at the lowest point of Shadowlands and then start to climb.  Coupled with this was the desire to create the large height differential between lowest and highest tracks but not really having sufficient room (or time in my life!) to obtain this differential without that inevitable 'bowl of spaghetti'!  I had decided on a helix to solve this problem some time ago, but because of space limitations at the old house, the position of the helix has always been set at the top right corner of the plans so far shown.  In this position there were all sorts of problems (including hidden turnouts) that I had never been able to solve to my satisfaction.  Its funny how you can't see the wood for the trees sometimes - but it wasn't until quite recently that it dawned on me that with the space now available to me the helix no longer has to go in this position!

The below plan shows the new design.  As I am a pencil designer - and there are still a lot of decisions to make moving forwards - this is just a 'sketch'.  I will create a much better, more colourful and easier to comprehend version in the near future, but for now, this plan should hopefully clarify the overall design somewhat.  Tellynott is pictured on the bottom and right 2/3rds of the plan.  The rest is Shadowlands.  The helix is now on the other side of the division wall, next to the internal doorway.  The main line leaves Tellynott through the backdrop after the first curved wall after leaving the yard.  It runs along behind the backdrop where, just before the second curved wall, it encounters a double slip.  By going straight through the double slip the track then makes a left turn and enters the helix by the division wall (all of this track work will be hidden, but easily accessible).  The helix makes several revolutions clockwise and trains will exit from a tunnel at the lowest level of Shadowlands.  There will also be a set of points near here whereby trains can pierce the division wall to the hidden sidings and return loop under the Tellynott peninsula (Inglletown).

The other advantage of this new design is that I can now build the layout in three stages.  Stage one will be Tellynott, stage 2 will be the helix and the bench-work from here to the division wall at the top of the plan (including all the area behind the backdrop of Tellynott) and stage three will be the rest.  In this way there will be far less of a rush to build a new two bay barn that will house the station wagon as I can complete stage two while the car still parks in the same space.

I will make an effort to print off the plan below, darken the lines, and add written explanations to help clarify.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: postalkarl on July 13, 2019, 11:17:31 AM
Hey mark:

Looks like you are moving right along. Beautifully done so far.

Karl
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 13, 2019, 06:01:46 PM
Hi guys.

Thanks, Karl.  Yep - trying to keep the motivation going.

That's definitely one of the reasons I like to post on a thread like this - it helps keep me motivated.  Its also a great way to meet new friends, and even though I live on the other side of the world from most of you, I have still had the pleasure of meeting some of you, and I'm sure I will meet more in the future.  I also do a lot of my modelling by myself so it is a great way to share one of my great passions with like minded people.  Of course we all learn from each other.  Everyone is an expert in something.  Another important reason is that by having to explain your ideas to others you end up really analyzing what you are doing and this often leads to a greater understanding - often combined with a 'eureka!' moment.

I had quite a bit of fun following those little black lines around with a highlighter, and in the process discovered that it would be very easy to add a continuous run to the river return loop.  I have drawn this in and will consider its uses in the different stages of construction.  I does mean I will be able to run trains while I work on the layout without them getting in the way.  I have named the high and low points Mountain and River to help make things clear.  Even though I decided against looping around the room twice, there is still a lot of pink!  (no bowl of spaghetti here, ah?)

Anyway, attached is a photo of a more colourful plan with some written explanations.  Hopefully it makes a bit more sense.  I have put in four heights for your reference.  The largest height differential is 21".  I'm sure in a mountain scene that will look like miles.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: S&S RR on July 13, 2019, 07:07:45 PM
Mark


Great looking plan.   As a point of reference - the lowest track on my S&S RR is 42 inches and the highest is 63 inches - 21 inches of difference. I found it interesting. ;) 
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 14, 2019, 04:01:17 PM
Thanks, John.  Yes - interesting that our height variations are the same.  I'm kind of governed by the area to the left of River and Mountain.  If I keep the first three bridges level leaving Mountain then I need a 3% grade to achieve an 18" height differential between River and Mountain.  I can expand this area slightly, but at its present size it seems to fit well aesthetically and be in proportion.  I also start to push the boundaries of what is easily accessible when reaching in to work on the scenery.  Also, the bottom left corner of the room was set aside to house my Fault Lines layout.  The more I think about it the more I think I will leave it as it is - although I will rotate the track-work a little to the left using the center of the top circle of track as the center of rotation in order to increase the isle width when entering Shadowlands.  The other important height governor is the double slip.  This will be somewhere between 58 1/2" and 60 1/2".  I have made decisions regards the different viewing heights of Graves Elevators and my Tap and Die diorama and these are both situated on sidings off the Mountain loop (in yellow).  This will dictate the track height the height of the track as it pierces the backdrop, and thus the double slip.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 17, 2019, 03:17:35 AM
Hi guys.

Well I thought I should update my 'layout at a glance'.  I also realise that some readers will not know about my other/ previous threads, so this should fill in a few blanks.

The layout at a glance.

Name:  Shadowlands and Tellynott (S&T)
Scale:  HO (1:87)
Prototype:  Freelanced - influenced by Jacksons Bay and urban NZ - mainly Lyttelton and Wellington.
Locale:  New Zealand
Period:  1932
Layout style:  Freestanding walk around
Layout height:  39.5" - 60.5"
Benchwork:  L-girder
Roadbed:  Homasote on MDF
Track:  Peco code 100
Length of mainline:  220 feet
Turnout minimum:  No 4
Minimum curve radius:  17 inches
Maximum grade:  3%
Scenery construction:  Plaster on polystyrene
Control:  DCC

Below is some information about Lyttleton - my Tellynott layouts original inspiration.  I'll try to write something up about Wellington as well.

Lyttelton is a steep port town (now a suburb of Christchurch) about 20 minutes drive from the center of the city.  A single track mainline negotiates these hills via a rail tunnel 1.5 miles long.  The tunnel was completed in 1867, and at the time, was one of the longest tunnels in the world, and the first to be driven through the side of an extinct volcano.  A ferry service was introduced from Lyttelton to Wellington in 1895 (connecting the South Island to the North Island) and continued until 1976.  This gave rise to the introduction of the boat train, which soon became a twice daily service.  Passengers were picked up from Lyttelton wharf in the morning after their overnight sailing from Wellington and taken through the tunnel to Christchurch, while in the evening passengers bound for Wellington were dropped off.  A road tunnel was also constructed, but not until 1964.  For years rail was the primary source of transport for goods from the mainland to the port.  Lyttelton became a popular destination for picnics and fishing off the wharf and in its hay day, 23 passenger trains traveled the 6.25-mile journey between Christchurch and Lyttelton daily.

The name Tellynott is an anagram of Lyttleton, and the port of Lyttelton has certainly been a major influence on the design of the Tellynott section of my layout. The steep site and small area demand complex and tight track-work in order to service as many wharves and industries as possible. This has also led to a large variety of industries in a very small space. Likewise, extremely small building sites have led to the structures being squeezed in, and the tendency to spread vertically rather than horizontally. I have exaggerated this vertical element and have looked to other New Zealand towns and cities for appropriate prototype buildings to either kit-bash or scratch-build.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 19, 2019, 11:42:04 PM
Hi guys.

I've been playing around with schematics.  Below is the version that doesn't involve the building of a new barn (yet).  This will be run as a point to point.  Tellynott to River, River to Mountain, Mountain to Tellynott (via the high return cutoff).  On their way to and from River trains can visit the low loop to be replaced.  I'm not convinced that the return cutoff here is necessary.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 20, 2019, 05:30:37 PM
Hi guys.

As Maori legend tells it,  Wellington is the head of the great fish that Maui hooked and hauled from the sea (the North Island representing the fish, while the South Island is the canoe).  She is a city of character and beauty, who grew over the decades, spreading up the Hutt river valley, around the shores of Cook Strait, and along the harbours and bays to the North. 

I first fell in love with photographs of fantastic wharf scenes of the early 1900's - photos bustling with life, with pretty ships and Clydesdale horses and the wondrous shapes of a row of hydraulic cranes.  Smoke and fog intermingled and clouded the sea air, but somehow through all that grime and grit I saw a romantic notion of life.  I visited Christchurch's many libraries and checked out many books on the city and also purchased any good ones I found in second hand book shops, especially when visiting Wellington.  I developed a shortlist of buildings I hoped to build one day, and many on that list were from Wellington.  On one trip a few years ago I found a book entitled 'The Compleat Cityscapes' written David McGill and illustrated by Grant Tilly.  It featured 244 heritage sketches of Wellington structures , many of them residential houses, and many located in some of Wellingtons steepest suburbs.  It was one of those finds that I was so super excited by.  When we moved to our new house with the extra modelling space the idea came to me to build an entire peninsula devoted to residential housing, using The Compleat Cityscapes almost solely as my inspiration.  As the idea developed I decided to keep this area free from any visible railway.

More soon, cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 22, 2019, 02:38:54 AM
Hi guys.

Well, after I had built my peninsula I spent some time playing with google earth and then with polystyrene.  I picked some of my favourite scenes from the book and looked on google earth maps using both terrain and street view to navigate around.  I found many of the houses were still standing, and many in very good condition.  I also found that many of the scenes I wanted to recreate were in close proximity to others.  I scaled up a map to the same scale as my layout plan and printed it off.  I then cut out the parts of the map featuring these scenes and recreated a street design that would fit into and flow with my layout peninsula design.

Photo 1 shows the paper plan after I had moved the cutout streets and found a configuration I thought would work well.  You can see I have referenced many pages from my book of scenes and structures I want to recreate.

I then drew the plan in HO scale on the peninsula and cut polystyrene into wedges.  I cut these into sections about 2" long and used them to create curved roads at grade.  Once this was complete I scanned all the structures from the book I wanted to build and enlarged until they were HO scale.  I then printed all these images, cut them out and attached them to blocks of polystyrene.  I arranged them on the layout until I was fairly happy.  I then went about creating smallish dioramas that would fit together in a kind of jigsaw, and which I could work on at the modelling bench at a later date.  I used expanding foam to fill any gaps.

Photos 2-6 show the process coming together.  You can see in photo 5 one of the finished diorama bases and in photo 6 it is put in position.

More soon, cheers , Mark.
 
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: cuse on July 22, 2019, 06:12:13 AM
Wow...that's quite a process. Very impressive!

Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: Zephyrus52246 on July 22, 2019, 07:39:24 AM
Your research and development of this layout concept is quite amazing to me.  Keep going!


Jeff
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: S&S RR on July 22, 2019, 07:57:06 AM
Mark


This thread is fantastic! I'm really enjoying the detailed description of the design process.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 22, 2019, 04:26:44 PM
Hi guys.

Thanks very much for the comments Cuse, Jeff and John!  I was beginning to wonder if anyone was watching.

Well - here are a few more photos, some of which will fill in a few gaps in the process.

Photo 1 - I did this same process when designing the back wall of Tellynott, only I used a street map of Lyttelton.  This photo shows the cut out street map being manipulated into a position that I thought would work on the layout plan.  You can see I decided to crop the street map.  With the peninsula the process was the same except I had several smaller pieces that I had to manipulate and connect rather like a jigsaw.

Photo 2 - shows the high edge of the peninsula.  I intend to build a folding step here for viewers to stand on.  I want to create views down those curving streets with the rest of Tellynott across the isle in the background.  I'm hoping this will help make the layout appear much larger than it actually is.  You can see the timber along the top of the edge.  This is the top fixing for my facsia of MDF.  Its one of those things that is way easier to do during this process, rather than as an afterthought.

Photo 3 - Here we have the diorama housing my scratch-build based on Graves Elevators.  You can see all the flat head nails in the top and the side of the road sections.  I glue these in place and foam the gaps while the nails are in place and remove them when everything is dry.  I use Selleys quick grab in a caulking gun for gluing.

Photo 4 - this photo shows the Graves diorama in position.  The track here is the only track that will be visible on the whole diorama and it is right up against the far wall.

Photo 5 - Here is another photo showing the dioramas coming together.  I labeled them as I went to help show the process.

Photo 6 - Here is a shot showing all 12 dioramas in position.

More soon, cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 23, 2019, 08:07:23 PM
Hi guys.

Finally are some photos as I place my structures around the peninsula.  Many have specific spots to live as dictated by the scene pictures in the book.  This gives an overall impression of what I am trying to achieve in this area.  As you will see there are many structures (over 100) so I'm talking years.  We have the biannual NZAMRC convention in Christchurch in Easter of 2020 (it is held in Chch every 10 years) and my layout is on the tour list.  I have various goals I hope to achieve by then, but doing much work on the peninsula is not one of them.  I hope to be able to complete about a square foot so a finished scene across the peninsula and isle to the Tellynott corner diorama can be viewed.

Photo 1 shows the residential scene morphing into a more commercial and industrial one.  You can see here my Graves structure and my P&D Duncan scratch-build, along with some shops.

Photo 2 shows a close up view.  You can see Graves to the right.  The two tall houses in the front - especially the 5-story one to the left - have been on my 'must build' list for ages.  It was a butcher shop with housing above, although I think it is now a hair dresser.

Photo 3 shows the scene from further back.

Photo 4 shows a view from further back again.

Photo 5 - here we are angled the other way.  The expandable foam canister is actually across the isle at the end of the yard.  You can see how I will be able to create views this way with borrowed scenery from the layout behind.

Photo 6 - And lastly here is a view from the end of the peninsula.

More soon, cheers, Mark.

 
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: S&S RR on July 23, 2019, 09:05:24 PM
Mark


That is going to be one amazing scene. What a great way to visualize the plan. I will be following along as you implement it - thank you for sharing this with us.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 24, 2019, 03:41:29 PM
Thanks very much for stopping by, John - and for your kind words.

This is my favourite part of the process.  I would think I would spend maybe 10% of my time designing on paper, 10% of my time of building mock-ups and 10% on terrain mock-ups.  Its no wonder it takes me so long to build anything!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: S&S RR on July 24, 2019, 04:17:16 PM
Thanks very much for stopping by, John - and for your kind words.

This is my favourite part of the process.  I would think I would spend maybe 10% of my time designing on paper, 10% of my time of building mock-ups and 10% on terrain mock-ups.  Its no wonder it takes me so long to build anything!

Cheers, Mark.


Mark


I think that any time you spend in the design and mock-up stage is saved in the build stage by minimizing the "do overs".  There is nothing worse than wasting time tearing out a section of layout and redoing it because it just doesn't look right. Your attention to elevation change makes the scene look much more realistic.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 24, 2019, 06:05:16 PM
Quote
Mark


I think that any time you spend in the design and mock-up stage is saved in the build stage by minimizing the "do overs".  There is nothing worse than wasting time tearing out a section of layout and redoing it because it just doesn't look right. Your attention to elevation change makes the scene look much more realistic.

I agree, John. 

I think added to this - as a mock-up I can take an expensive craftsman kit, cut it into pieces and spend hours shuffling those pieces around into an entirely new configuration and embedded into a mocked-up terrain at grade.  At the end if I look at what I have created and say "Wow!  That is going to look so cool!"  it gives me the confidence to attack the expensive craftsman kit for real.  This also gives you the luxury to be very creative and come up with something truly unique, without destroying that expensive kit.  The next set of photos I will upload will show this.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: postalkarl on July 25, 2019, 03:33:15 PM
Hey Mark:

Just went through from the beginning. Lots of work and nice progress. Will be following along.


Karl
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 27, 2019, 02:40:03 AM
Quote
Hey Mark:

Just went through from the beginning. Lots of work and nice progress. Will be following along.


Karl

Thanks very much, Karl.  Its lots of fun!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 27, 2019, 06:14:47 AM
Hi guys.

Well, below are a series of photos I took while playing with my only South River Modelworks kit.  When I made it to the 2015 Scranton expo, a SRM kit was at the very top of my wish list.  There were several to choose from and in the end I went with Thorndike Mills.

I copied and enlarged the plans from the kit and printed off several copies.  I made up two stone mill mock-ups to try different arrangements.  I discovered that when placed next to my other mill, Thorndike's was dwarfed, and so I felt I really needed to enlarge the kit while keeping it balanced.  Many hours and attempts later I ended up with the configuration pictured below.  There is no way I would attempt a bash like this without being confident of what the end result would look like.  I find that a mock-up shows much of the drama that will eventually be achieved by the end result as well as how the complex will fit with the other structures and terrain around it.  I also find that adding quick roofs really helps in defining the shape.  You can see I pretty much doubled both the stone and timber parts of the kit to help keep the balance as well as changing heights on the two stone sections and tumbling part of the timber section down the slope of the terrain towards the water.  The shape of the overall complex also encloses a nice intimate scene which will be naturally framed for viewing.  Hours (days) of fussing later I was pretty happy with the scene.

More soon, cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: S&S RR on July 27, 2019, 08:16:29 AM
Mark


That is going to be a great scene. You sure have a lot of years worth of plans ready to be built. I'm going to really enjoy watching your progress.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: deemery on July 27, 2019, 08:59:41 AM
A lot of the SRMW kits look too compressed to me.  The brick mill is about 14"/35cm, the stone mill is just a bit shorter.  And by New England mill standards, they're small buildings! 

I'm really enjoying your design process, I have a large center blob that will hold a town, once I get to it.

dave
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 27, 2019, 07:03:54 PM
Quote
Mark


That is going to be a great scene. You sure have a lot of years worth of plans ready to be built. I'm going to really enjoy watching your progress.

Thanks John.  Yes - the projects are certainly stacked up!  Unfortunately, my biggest modelling flaw is getting excited about a new project and leaving my last project unfinished.  I hope getting things ready for the upcoming 2020 Easter convention will force me to both change this habit and to also finish many of those unfinished projects off!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Shadowlands and Tellynott
Post by: mark dalrymple on July 27, 2019, 07:34:12 PM
Quote
A lot of the SRMW kits look too compressed to me.  The brick mill is about 14"/35cm, the stone mill is just a bit shorter.  And by New England mill standards, they're small buildings! 

I'm really enjoying your design process, I have a large center blob that will hold a town, once I get to it.

dave

Thanks Dave.  My scratch-build of Delabarre Tap and Die Co. was built using the walls from a Walthers 'Greatland Sugar' kit.  It may have therefore ended up larger than its inspiration.  I remember making a mock-up of a low relief fertilizer factory that I designed based on an old article in MRR which had copies of actual plans.  When I placed the mock-up in its position next to my kit-bash of a Heljan Brewery I found the brewery dwarfed the fertilizer factory.  I ended up blowing up the size of the fertilizer factory by 25% until it 'looked' right.  Sometimes you have to bend reality to make your impression of reality look real!

Below is a photo showing the track snaking back with the three industries on three different levels.  Going down hill and from front to back is Graves Elevators, Dalebarre and Thorndike's.

Photo 2 shows the fertilizer factory (Edmond's baking) increased by 25% from the prototype to look 'right' next to the brewery.

More soon, cheers, Mark.