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Forum Boards => Scratchbuilding => Topic started by: bparrish on February 15, 2019, 01:44:09 AM

Title: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 15, 2019, 01:44:09 AM
OK  Gents.............. I'm at it again.

Last fall I put up a photo of a sand car that I wanted to build and will in fact finish it.

But I got way-layed with this.   It is from a series of photos in 1909-10 taken on the Idaho Traction Company line here in Boise.  I cannot leave this alone.  The photos aren't the best but I'm headed back to the state archive to get photographic copies from the glass negatives rather then just photo copies of a questionable print.
This car is a overhead wire and pole car.  The cab area is narrowed at the base on each side so as to carry full length overhead wire poles.  I hesitate to call them telephone poles for obvious reasons... They aren't ! ! !

So with that ... Here are a few of the source photos of which there are four more available.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150219014706.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150219013618-377071507.jpeg)

Then on to a fresh page for the initial work.
see ya
Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 15, 2019, 01:54:29 AM
So to begin.  I'm starting with the frame rails only as a foundation to the whole things.

I will be using a Northwest Short Line power 4 wheel power truck and a super small Digitrax decoder in the narrow area between the pole notches in the cab.
Raw frame rails
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150219013618-37708213.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150219013618-3770961.jpeg)

The coil springs are held captive by the various suspension wires of .030" wire.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150219013618-377101384.jpeg)

The journal boxes are taken out of an old brass Red Ball passenger truck

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150219013655-377111950.jpeg)

The elliptical springs are cut out of a crushed piece of brass tubing.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150219013655-377111950.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Janbouli on February 15, 2019, 06:05:41 AM
What a great project , gladly following.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on February 15, 2019, 11:46:23 AM
Bob, I'm really looking forward to seeing your project progress.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: BandOGuy on February 15, 2019, 01:56:54 PM

Great work so far!
Wonder what ever happened to the style thing for men of wearing a fedora everywhere?
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 16, 2019, 02:07:28 AM
Here is a shot of the side frame that did not go up last night.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150219013655-37712323.jpeg)

So I got after squaring up the frame.  Here are a few shots of the frame with the drive truck dropped in. I will create the brake hangers and from there will be small wires that go over to the screws on the motor and anchor the frame.  The frame will be completely insulated from the decoder.  Most of my scratch built trolleys are like that.  It solves a lot of problems later.


(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-160219020157-377351092.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-160219020157-377362133.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-160219020157-377132245.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: ACL1504 on February 16, 2019, 06:45:21 AM
Neat project, I'll be following along also.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on February 16, 2019, 07:21:18 AM
You Rascal!  What a cool project.

Why do I feel another 1st place ribbon is coming your way at national convention?
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: GPdemayo on February 16, 2019, 09:05:59 AM
That is a neat looking trolley Bob.....looking forward to your build.  :)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Rail and Tie on February 16, 2019, 12:42:22 PM
Excellent work Bob. Coming along great!
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 17, 2019, 01:36:04 AM
So I had a little time at the bench today.  Got the motor suspended and the sub deck on.

The motor hangs on two loops of wire that hold the brake shoes.  They are black plastic so that nothing stupid happens and connects one or another wheel to the frame; which will remain polarity neutral.  Then small loops of wire are tied around the corner screws that hold the power truck together.  Those were then shaped and soldered.  A bit of leveling went on that there is no good way of showing.  The final calculation is made at each corner with a digital vernier down to the work bench.
 Probably not much more till Monday.

see ya

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-170219012937-37757367.jpeg)


(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-170219012937-37763130.jpeg)


(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-170219012938-37764957.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Jerry on February 17, 2019, 07:35:00 PM
Very interesting project.

Very fine workmanship!!

Jerry
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 18, 2019, 01:51:57 AM
Thank you all for your kind remarks.

Now after that I need to get this out of the way.

I hate Norm Abrams ! ! ! !   You know....... the wood working guy on PBS.   


Why you as  !?!?!?!?

He never says "oops" and everything fits the first time.  I've done a LOT of woodworking and even more machine work.  IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT ! ! ! !

ok........... I'm better now.

I had this notion that I could use pre-made cast pilots from Labelle for their trolleys. I have a ton of their castings and this was going to be a push over.

Wrong ! ! !

The melting point of the white metal is too close to my coolest melting point solder....180 degrees Fahrenheit.

So I fried the legs off of two castings just to prove to myself that it wouldn't work.  Here is the evidence!

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219014800-37765770.jpeg)

So on to making my own pilots

Next!
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 18, 2019, 02:02:13 AM
I have put up on this forum before how to make these but not one this small and I need two of 'em ! ! !

This is hard to see but.................  I make a layout on .007" brass that includes the width, eighth and how far it sticks out to the front.  In this case two scale feet up and out and nine scale feet wide.

The photos below show the various scribe lines for all dimensions, angles for the stick out part and the cross lines where the holes will be drilled for the .019" brass wire.
From here the holes are drilled while it is in a whole sheet and easily handled.

The holes are drilled at the intersections of the various lines.


(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219014800-377702152.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219014800-377712146.jpeg)

Next
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 18, 2019, 02:09:24 AM
Then the fold is made between the vertical and the stick out part.  What better name might I use for that description?

Wires are put through each pair of holes and the bend in the wire is only to keep them from falling out while the next is inserted.  Wanna know how I discovered that ? ? ?
Then I use liquid solder flux and run a line of solder over the whole thing. It is really quick.  Then I take a zuron nipper and cut off all of the tag ends.    After that I file everything down to the sheet brass. There is enough solder wicked through the hole to hold it all together.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219014800-377722302.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219014803-377731181.jpeg)

Somewhat cleaned up.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219014848-377742437.jpeg)

Here are the final pilots with the backs cut out so as to be able to see through the  pilot.  There is a lot of clean up work but this only takes about two hours for both of them.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219014848-377751734.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 18, 2019, 02:45:24 AM
So I got more bench time than I thought I might ......... got the pilots mounted to the sub frame.
I have a resistance soldering rig so some of this goes really fast.  I use a liquid flux for everything which makes the solder flow go more quickly.  Often a solder will go off but the rosin core has not gotten hot enough yet.  The flux makes it go off at much lower temps.

There some diagonal supports that show in the prototype photos that will have to go on and there is is s TON of clean up left to go....  The super structure is next.
Thanx for looking in..........


(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219024101-377761440.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219024101-377772387.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219024101-37778934.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Janbouli on February 18, 2019, 06:08:54 AM
What a great job . Just curious though , couldn't you have glued the castings Bob ?
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Oldguy on February 18, 2019, 10:58:16 AM
All I can say is WOW!
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on February 18, 2019, 11:55:23 AM
That is ingenious and looks great Bob.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 18, 2019, 12:59:21 PM
Jan...

I suppose I could have glued the cast pilots on but the metal is soft and probably would have been pretty fragile.   Besides...............  I was pretty sure from the out set that I would have to make them up. 


They aren't that tough...  Looks tougher than it really is.  It's all about getting the lay out right and square first.  After that you can't miss.


They really are rather fun to make up.  At the end of the day you can tell yourself that you really did something.

Thanx for looking in.
Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on February 18, 2019, 01:05:17 PM
Nice progress Bob.  As always, beautiful work my friend.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Janbouli on February 18, 2019, 01:59:34 PM
Jan...




They really are rather fun to make up.

The most important part.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 18, 2019, 06:14:15 PM
I got some bench time and made up the main deck.  The cutout is due to a raised area in the power truck and also place to get the wires to the decoder.  I am keeping the cut out close so the wiring and electronics are not visible from the bottom.

 I have yet to scale out the superstructure but that will happen yet today or tomorrow.

I will run a single screw up through the sheet brass area at each end and grab the bottom of the superstructure in the center line of the car. 

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219180137-37779497.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219180137-37801226.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-180219180137-378001218.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: vinceg on February 18, 2019, 06:27:58 PM
Amazing to watch, Bob. Thx.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on February 18, 2019, 08:01:46 PM
Beautiful modeling Bob.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 19, 2019, 04:26:20 PM
So progress has slowed a bit..... glue times with wood are MUCH slower that soldering with a resistance rig.  As soon as it cools and you can handle it you move on.  Not with wood and glue.  Some stuff goes pretty quickly when pressed together but the core framing needs overnight to really kick off the glue.

So here is the plan.  Now John Siekirk will get after me for this as he is educated as an engineer and designer.  My engineering is a bit more seat of pants as I worked for Mercedes Benz and Volvo and only went after their designs when they didn't work in the wild and woolly west.  I got called back to the engineering labs in New Jersey a lot in the late 70's to mid 80's.

I had a frame plan from the outset but the superstructure was later in coming.  Well I need it now so I made it up from the best of the photos that I currently have.

I think I have in this plan a way to make the end door to operate.  It was on a sliding track and I think I can do that with a wire on the top of the door and a brass micro tube as a guide receptacle.   Also I will have the roof removable for a complete interior.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-190219161500-378022466.jpeg)

Here then is an initial layout on the plan for the side and end walls.  This is all the more of a plan that I need to build this.  I use a combination of scale rulers and metric rulers.  I find fractional rulers to not be precise enough and also you cannot add up lengths and distances easily.  Metric allows you to count up from one..... nothing changes when you get to those things called inches ! ! !

Here is a photo of a panel layout. You can see why my plans get dirt and smudges on them.  I only think to make a photo copy of them later when they are already dirty.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-190219161501-379291434.jpeg)

More later.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: NKP768 on February 19, 2019, 06:06:21 PM
I am with you Brad - I bit the bullet and bought a PBL resistance unit after reading an article in Mainline Modeler several years ago. I actually have gotten to the point where I hate gluing anything that involves a "wait" time. You can literally hold the two pieces to be soldered in your fingers and hit it with heat, make the join, and go to the next piece. I have seen pictures of the Japanese women from the Tenshodo/United factories from the 50's with a table top hibachi and irons in the coals. Amazing when you look at the craftsmanship from the era.

Doug   
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: deemery on February 19, 2019, 06:14:48 PM
I tried 'micro tube' and piano wire for a working hinge on my roundhouse doors.  The problem I had was securing the micro tube hinge barrel to the door.  Soldering was not an option for me (doesn't work well on a wood door  ;D )  I was using NGineering tubing, that worked well.  So if you can solder their stainless tubing, your track idea should work.


dave
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 20, 2019, 02:03:59 AM
I got in about four glue sets after the initial ones last night.  Here is the basic superstructure.

The layouts allowed for the door and window inserts on each end.  I'll build the window casements from various strip wood. 


More later
Bob

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-200219020023-379301558.jpeg)(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-200219020024-379331119.jpeg)(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-200219020024-37934832.jpeg)(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-200219020024-379352461.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: cuse on February 20, 2019, 07:13:51 AM
Very cool project and excellent execution (as always)   8)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Jerry on February 20, 2019, 10:21:47 AM
Perfect as always.

Great work Norm I mean Bob!!  :)

Jerry
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: NKP768 on February 20, 2019, 10:34:33 AM
Great looking work Bob, what thickness of scribed siding are you using for the car sides - are these laminated or one thickness?

Thanks,
Doug
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 20, 2019, 11:57:35 AM
Doug....

Great question.  This is some scale siding that I get from Northeastern.  It comes in sheets of 3" by 24" (I think on the width),  It is nothing out of the ordinary. Their standard stock. They are very fast at filling individual orders.

It is not a micro ply.  The material is .062" which is 1/16th" in fractional.    That scales out at something just over 5" in HO.  That is not overly fat when considering being able to be handled during construction and the finished model.

Recall that wood in those years was true dimension and not the planed down dimensions where we are paying for what THEY started with, rather than what we are getting.  Pardon my frustration with the lumber industry.

I have no way of seeing into the photos for the interior but if it was sheathed on both inside and outside five inches is still pretty close with one inch sheathing.

To finish the interior I will pre color with aniline dye and then stiffen it with super glue.  It has to be in that order. Then I will dry brush some mucky green that seems to pervade all caboose decor.  That otta get enough of a grunge appearance to suit me.

Thanx for looking in.
Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: NKP768 on February 20, 2019, 12:21:04 PM
Thanks Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 21, 2019, 02:13:13 AM
I had no idea that I would need most of the day to get the window mullions and door casings done.  They are all fitted pieces of various shape stocks and flat wood.  The glue set times are a real pain in the wheels of progress.  I cannot trust super glue.  It creeps and once kicked it is SOOOO hard to clean up after. 


With the yellow glue only a short wait and when the glue goes into a doughy stage it can be cleaned off and the put aside for a while.

The headers are left long for now as they wrap over the side boards.  Just going by the photos.


(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-210219020814-379691995.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-210219020814-37970319.jpeg)

More later



Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on February 21, 2019, 09:57:51 AM
Really nice Bob.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on February 23, 2019, 12:40:13 AM
Hey Bob,
Do you think that you will have this project far enough along to have it running next month at our local NMRA meet?
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 23, 2019, 07:05:10 PM
Bruce ..... 


Yes but only a maybe.   I wii not be able to run it on my trolley module that I routinely bring to the meet. Recall that the module is common rail and power from the overhead wire. I’m making up to run on two rail for the National.  I don’t want wires to the roof when I’ll try to show it roof off to show the interior.  I may after that reside it to pole power.  I don’t have space to make it run on both. 


Thanx
Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on February 23, 2019, 08:16:08 PM
Hey Bob,
It was great to have lunch with you today at the Mini Meet.  Remind me not to eat the pepperoni pizza next time.

Well since the trolley will not run on the modular layout, maybe you will have to build a small 2'x4' layout to run it on.  Of course that's an after national project.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 25, 2019, 02:09:41 PM
So remind me again why I don't like Norm Abrams ! ! ! !

Here is a photo of the first try at the scaffolding.  It's close but not right.  It is out of square by about .010".

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219140225-38027479.jpeg)


Next option ........ make a jig to hold it where it needs to be.  I cut a block of wood that is the size of the interior of the scaffolding.  The corners are L stock from Northeastern and cut long to shape later.   A rubber band holds in all there.   The pencil lines are square to the block so I only have to follow the lines to make it even all the way around.   The half lapping allows me to keep going.  Once painted the lapped ends will not show.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219140226-380332297.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219140226-380351025.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219140226-38034620.jpeg)

I should be able to take this off of the form block in about another hour.  Then I need to figure out how to jig up the sliding piece that goes inside.

More later
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 25, 2019, 04:08:48 PM
The glue dried and now............. drum roll please ........... will it come off the jig? ? ?

I relieved the corners with a knife so as soon as it moves it lets go and flops off.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219160530-380362325.jpeg)

So it worked ! ! ! !

The legs are not cut yet as I need to get the elevator part of this done and then I can locate it on the roof and shape the legs to the pitch of the roof.  But for now............

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219160530-38037288.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219160531-38038921.jpeg)

More later
Thanx for looking in
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Jerry on February 25, 2019, 04:10:49 PM
Excellent modeling Bob!!

Jerry
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 25, 2019, 04:14:21 PM
Thank you .......... sir
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 25, 2019, 04:24:14 PM
To work on the elevator..............  Yes ! ! !  I think I can make this operate.

From the photos it appears that the deck of the scaffolding was able to be moved (elevated) to put workers at some height that was suitable.  There clearly is a hand wheel over the trolley pole springs and you can see a chain leading to something below.  Surely a mechanical elevator with some sort of latching mechanism.  Unfortunately there are no better photos and I have not located a car company that had any out shop photos of such equipment. 

I think in the main the superstructures were built by some company and suitable to be put on some derrilict trolley frame that one or another company had laying around.  Four wheeled trolleys were very unpopular as they rode rough and companies quickly took them out of service in trade for twin truck, eight wheel equipment.

As this elevator is to be on the inside of the structure shown above, the various framing boards need to be on the inside of the L shape corner pieces.  Thus I cannot wrap this around a jig as I did previously.

Bring on the blue tape ! ! !!

I laid this out with a caliper to set the spacing to clear the outer scaffolding by about .030",  this ought to give it enough clearance to move freely.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219161305-380392213.jpeg)

This then will be cut in half and make two of the four sides.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219161305-380401117.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219161306-380412477.jpeg)
Should be done today.
More later
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 25, 2019, 06:42:31 PM
It's a good day at the bench ! ! !

Got the scaffolding and elevator done.   Here is the operating mechanism for the elevator. I had all these ideas for how to run chains or thread and wind it around the wheel shaft.  Then I got to thinking about all the cool animations stuff the Fisher Price does for children's toys.  They are monuments of simplicity.  Then it came to me.....

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219183731-380421167.jpeg)



Here is the elevator in the scaffold in the lower position.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219183731-380431796.jpeg)



And then raised.  It moves a scale two feet plus a bit.  That's enough..    It's brew-ski time ! ! ! !

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250219183731-38044586.jpeg)

I'll find you all tomorrow.............  I flamed out
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Janbouli on February 25, 2019, 06:52:31 PM
Magnificent, and thanks for the trick with the wood block.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on February 25, 2019, 09:20:35 PM
Outstanding modeling Bob.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on February 26, 2019, 05:28:11 PM
The scaffolding with the elevator is in place and the roof eaves cleaned up.  Some small detail is done also with NBW castings and stake pockets.

The next is bending wire for grab irons and steps.  I like repetition but only so far.  14 grabs for the ladders isn't too tough.  My first job, when I was 14, was in a piano restoration house in Chicago in 1961, it taught me repetition. Everything there is times 88.

Below are photos of the scaffolding planted on the roof.

More later.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260219172047-380611673.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260219172047-380851525.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260219172047-38086679.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260219172048-380871484.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on February 26, 2019, 06:57:52 PM
Excellent modeling Bob.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on March 08, 2019, 01:21:13 AM
I'm Back....

Been out sick for a week. 


So here is a discussion on how to make miniature doors with real glass and visible from both sides.  It's not  tough............ just really little ! ! ! !

Below is a photo of the core frame for the door.  It is cut to exactly the finished size of the door.  In this case, .910" x .410".  The extra .010" in each direction is that the opening of the door way on the model is .9 x .4".  This allows for some "hide" around the frame so you cannot see around the door.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319010232-382412278.jpeg)

This core is the base for everything that will come after.  The object here is to build a door as a pocket for the glass, a square of microscope slide cover glass.   



The structural frame work for the door is scale 2x6 lumber from any supplier.  As strip applied to each side of the door.  Before adding the fourth strip, cut the core out of the glass area.  This becomes the opening for the pocket.   Then the header is added to fill in the top and framed around also in scale 2x6.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319010233-382422464.jpeg)


The header inside the top closes the pocket.   There is no easy way to display this and especially with clear glass so I used a scrap of colored paper.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319010233-382431556.jpeg)

It does not matter really which side the pocket opens to so I built one of each to demonstrate.  Once painted the glass can be added and the pocket closed with a thin pull of yellow glue.  I use it like a paste filler.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319010233-382441295.jpeg)

Below is a photo of both completed doors with the guide wires and receiver tube that the wire will be guided in to allow the door to slide open and closed.  This will not be installed until all other paint work is done as there is no way to get the wire into the tube except as a complete unit.  The guide wire comes from the far side of the door so as to allow for the longest possible tube and the most stability in open or closed locations.
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319010233-38245162.jpeg)

More later

Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on March 08, 2019, 01:23:16 AM
Here is a photo of the door held up in the opening.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319010431-382462241.jpeg)

More tomorrow
see ya
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: restocarp on March 08, 2019, 05:34:52 AM
Incredible work, Bob.

Matt
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on March 08, 2019, 08:31:33 AM
Very intricate work Bob. It's top notch.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on March 08, 2019, 10:33:46 AM
I have been struggling for some weeks now as to how and secure all of the layers of this work motor.  There is the brass frame, the wooden deck and the superstructure.  I want them separate for construction and painting and then secured with the fewest amount of screws.  Two seems to be the answer.

When I worked for Mercedes Benz we had this engineering understanding as to how the Germans thought.  "Hold one thing down with seven screws or seven things down with one screw!"  Example.... look inside of their automatic transmissions of the 70's and 80's to see full evidence.

So the plan is to come up through the bottom of the model through the brass frame and have a captive nut held in the base of the superstructure.   None of this is complicated but let me take a moment to show how to make up a captive nut device.

When you try and solder a nut, here an 0-80 for example, the solder wants to wick into the threads.  A way to prevent this is to put a suitable tap into the nut.  This allows a handle on the nut and a clean out device once the nut has cooled.  You CANNOT use a bolt, even stainless that will not take solder.  It sounds like it should work but there is no place for the solder to "fail" to.  With a tap, as soon as you attempt to turn it, the solder starts carving out and returns you to good clean threads.

Here is a photo of the captive nut and plate.  The plate is glued to the inside of the superstructure with contact cement.  I keep a small jar of contact cement partially thickened for such purposes.  I gave up on Goo as it kicks off in the tube.  They changed ! ! ! !  It never used to do that.

Further, I bent in the corners a bit so as to have teeth that wound crush into the wood for an extra tooth against the shear force of the pull of the bolt when assembled.  The glue has fully gassed out before any load is applied.


(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319010432-382472339.jpeg)

More later

thanx for looking in
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Jerry on March 08, 2019, 11:51:46 AM
Bob that is some really fine modeling!!

Jerry
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on March 08, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
This afternoon was given to making up the last of the parts for this trolley motor.  Painting and finishing is next.

Here is a photo that is a good example of what trolley equipment used for and called couplers.  They were not the Janey type that we associate with everything out there.  They were a square receptacle and a peg that would go into this and latch (After this known as a "gazinta").  That's because one gazinta the other !!!    What were they thinking when the put me in front of students  ? ? ? ?

Anyhow............  They were primitive at best.  The photo makes me laugh as this thing looks like it has taken a lot of hits and is not used regularly.  But when you build something like this....... it's gotta be there.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319183738-382481394.jpeg)

My parts are brass square stock and a flat bar shank with a 00-90 washer on the other end.  The plate is sheet brass that will look like a base plate bolted into the wooden substructure of the deck.

Doesn't look like a whole afternoon of work but................... this is a hobby........

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319183738-38250375.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319183738-382511937.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-080319183738-38252611.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on March 08, 2019, 08:28:51 PM
Really nice job on them Bob.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Oldguy on March 08, 2019, 10:19:42 PM
So the "coupler" was like a long shank link and pin set up?

 You, sir, have some crazy good model building skills.  A doff of the hat to you.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: cuse on March 09, 2019, 07:33:07 AM
Bob, as usual, this is nuts! really next-level stuff. Very impressive!


John
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on March 09, 2019, 01:07:11 PM
Bob....

Trolley couplers were rather all over the place.    The freight motors used a common Janey coupler as that what was coming in off of the interchange.


In this case yes....... it is like a miniature link and pin......... but...    I've not found any Boise Valley photos that show a link or an obvious use of a pin.  In truth, they seldom coupled stuff together so most of the time stuff was just along for the ride.

Thanx for looking in

see ya
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Oldguy on March 09, 2019, 09:32:49 PM
Good thing you didn't want to make a fleet of these and run them together.  I have some working HO scale link and pin coupler sets, and that pin is tiiiiiny.  Looks like a belaying pin.  About the size of a code 100 spike.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on March 10, 2019, 04:09:32 AM
Bob....

My guess is that what you have are some Alexander Models link and pin sets.  I too have a bunch of these.


Problem is that they scale too large.

I used them in an 1850's model of a merchandise box car in an entry in the 2000 national convention in San Jose California. I finished third in the competition as I was being evaluated by a judge who had no idea what a mid 19th century freight car might look like.  He was not interested in such early modeling and had no interest in anyone who might.


 I took a beating in that judging as an evaluator from St Louis had no idea what he was evaluating and should have never been allowed to be an evaluator.  He counted them as scaled too large and scored me near zero in a major category rather than acknowledge my attempt to model something that he had no idea what he was considering.    This is an example of judges who should not be allowed to be judges.
 There are times when the detractors of AP evaluations might be right.   


Fortunately ............. a guy named Bob Hamm came in and attempted to pull back the national contest judging to what it should be.   A testimony to what good modeling might be.   I am forever grateful for people such as him for taking back the national contest from the people who tried to say. "I'm here now and I'll make it tougher on who ever might follow me".


People of this sort of thinking are why the NMRA takes a beating.  Curiously..... he is / was a former president of the NMRA.......................... thankfully...  we have come through such dark ages and are now driven by people who understand that what this is about is making better modelers.

Thanx for looking in
Bob

I am happy to be a part of that new thinking.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Oldguy on March 10, 2019, 09:59:43 PM
The Alexanders had the belaying pin looking pins and yes, they look way out of scale for HO.  Luckily I only have 1 package.  The ones I was thinking of was the NWSL units. And they do use what look like code 100 spikes as pins.
And I too was glad to see the improvement in NMRA judging.  I fought long and hard to get a more standardized format.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on June 14, 2019, 06:39:40 PM
So I have been away for a time........ some travel and two trips to the hospital.  My latest bed and breakfast.

I finally got some bench time and got the power truck built and assembled.

This is the most compact drive unit I have ever built.  It is a NWSL Stanton drive and a Digitrax 126 decoder.  It doesn't pick up current any better than what you would expect for a four wheel truck but it does move.  The photos include the assembly into the frame and the added deck.  More later.


(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140619183358-39034877.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140619183358-390551121.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140619183358-390561158.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140619183358-390572077.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on June 15, 2019, 01:38:46 AM
I got the superstructure on tonight.  The decoder is under the floor.  As there were no lights on this work motor it was pretty easy.

So now I clean up paint....  add windows and detail stuff.

Otta have it ready for the NMRA national in July.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150619013546-39062998.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150619013546-390642149.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150619013546-390652357.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150619013546-390662054.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Janbouli on June 15, 2019, 03:10:04 AM
Looking great Bob .
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on June 15, 2019, 09:13:18 AM
Very nice Bob.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Zephyrus52246 on June 16, 2019, 08:08:20 AM
Glad to see you're back at it, Bob.


Jeff
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on June 16, 2019, 11:24:44 AM
Glad to see you're back at it, Bob.


Jeff

Ditto. 
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Oldguy on June 16, 2019, 10:41:46 PM
Glad to see you're back at it, Bob.


Jeff
Me too.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on June 16, 2019, 10:49:02 PM
Good to be back.


Two trips to the hospital really cuts into the bench time.


Looks like the Monday night boys are coming tomorrow for an operations session. Always fun. 


I got the glass cut for the windows and they should go in tomorrow. 


See ya
Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Jerry on June 16, 2019, 11:19:21 PM
Looks great Bob!!

Jerry
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: S&S RR on June 17, 2019, 07:41:32 AM
Bob


Your modeling is looking great!  It's great to see you back here.  I hope all is well with your health.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: postalkarl on June 17, 2019, 03:37:25 PM
Hey Bob:

I'm following along and it looks just grat so far.

Karl
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on July 03, 2019, 12:36:46 PM
Crunch time ! ! !

Gotta get serious about this now.  I cannot go to the national NMRA convention in Salt Lake.  Doctors scheduled a heart valve replacement right on top of it.  It seems sort of important so I had to cancel.  I don't want any guff about priorities ! ! ! !

A good friend it taking it there for me.

So here are some of the interior shots.  There is a ton of fine painting stuff yet to go.  The glass is in and the doors operate.  The work bench is a bunch of different castings and the vise is carved out of a chunk of white metal with an x-acto blade.

I couldn't resist making up a crate of glass insulators.



(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-030719123118-392441328.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-030719123118-392502313.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-030719123118-39251154.jpeg)
(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-030719123118-392522389.jpeg)

Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: PRR Modeler on July 03, 2019, 02:30:54 PM
Wow, incredible modeling.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on July 05, 2019, 01:40:50 PM
I finally got enough bench time to get near the end on this project.  I'm not able to go to the national next week because of a surgery deal but the trolley is going with a friend to be judged in the contest.

It is close here.  Final detail painting and weathering is all that is left.

I did get the scaffolding to work for the contest presentation along with the doors.

So here is the exterior with a load of poles on and various clutter.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050719133453-392531359.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050719133453-392892425.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050719133453-39290787.jpeg)




Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on July 05, 2019, 01:42:08 PM
And here is the interior.

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050719133546-39291178.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050719133546-39292161.jpeg)

(http://www.modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050719133546-392931874.jpeg)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: sdrees on July 05, 2019, 01:43:10 PM
Incredible Bob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like an award winner to me
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: ACL1504 on July 05, 2019, 02:17:59 PM
Bob,

Masterful modeling my friend, just wonderful.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Janbouli on July 05, 2019, 07:22:54 PM
You do wonderful things Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: jimmillho on July 05, 2019, 08:46:46 PM
Absolutely an Award Winning Model Bob.

Jim
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: DennisBourey on July 05, 2019, 08:57:08 PM
Bob, Coming along really well. work of love.........Dennis
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: BandOGuy on July 05, 2019, 09:54:18 PM

Great to see you back, Bob.
Now I wish I'd sent my annual birthday greeting to Bob Hamm (his birthday adjoins my wife's natal day: it's a joke between us). I'd have given him a heads up your model's coming. Not that you need it.
Best wishes with the knife job coming up. Please leave instructions with your friend how to post the contest results here.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Oldguy on July 05, 2019, 10:12:20 PM
That is very well done.  Very well done sir.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Zephyrus52246 on July 06, 2019, 07:45:50 AM
Masterpiece work, Bob.

Jeff
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: GPdemayo on July 06, 2019, 09:06:26 AM
Beautiful modeling Bob..... 8)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Rail and Tie on July 06, 2019, 01:40:24 PM
Awesome job Bob!  Really love the interior details.
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on July 07, 2019, 01:08:16 AM
Hey Bob,
First of all I wish you all the best in your upcoming surgery.  And the model is beautiful.  It should win a prize or two at the show.

BTW, I am holding you to that invite to come see the layout in a few weeks after your surgery. 

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on July 07, 2019, 01:36:57 AM
Thank you one and all for your encouragement and well wishes.

I gave the trolley motor to Tom today to take it to the national.  I'll know by next Friday how it does.


Bruce.......... you are always welcome here.

see ya
Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Jim Donovan on July 09, 2019, 10:15:22 PM
Hi Bob;

First all the best next week, hope all goes well. Next the trolley is incredible, best of luck at the convention. I really enjoyed the tread and have bookmarked it to read again. There is a lot of knowledge to take in.

Finally, I had the pleasure of meeting and doing some modeling with Bob Hamm this past winter. Learned a lot. I will let him know his work is appreciated. He is fighting a ruptured disk but still modeling.

Jim D
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on July 10, 2019, 12:06:16 PM
Jim

Sorry to hear about Bob Hamm and his back problems.  I met him in the contest room at the Portland Oregon national three years ago.  He was terrific as manager of the contest.  I only had a short time to visit with him as he had a lot of responsibilities. 


I had entered the Falk Locomotive that I built on this forum the year before.

He truly understands what it takes to build something and be willing to take it to a national.  He is / was very supportive.     Wish I knew him better.  He is what this hobby needs.

Thanx
Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on July 10, 2019, 07:43:48 PM
Thank you one and all for your encouragement and well wishes.

I gave the trolley motor to Tom today to take it to the national.  I'll know by next Friday how it does.


Bruce.......... you are always welcome here.

see ya
Bob

You do realize of course that getting your locomotive back from ET could present you with an even bigger challenge than building the thing.  Just saying.

 ;D ;D :o

Btw. What was the name of Mike Brusky's outfit he is with at the national train show? 
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: sdrees on July 10, 2019, 10:53:17 PM
The model looks better in person than the pictures Bob, very nice job
It was
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on July 10, 2019, 11:37:26 PM
Thank you sir


Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on July 11, 2019, 11:43:03 AM
Bruce....

I'm not worried about getting back the trolley work motor.  I can hold his railroad hostage.
 
 Tom has no understanding of electricity........... he calls them neons and freons ! ! ! !

I told him recently that I could make his railroad  sooooooooooooo dead that no one could ever make it run again..   So far I have him believing that.

See e-mail on the side about Mike.

see ya
Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: NKP768 on July 11, 2019, 01:27:48 PM
Nice work on this Bob, living in Indiana(and home to the last true surviving interurban) and the hundreds of miles of Interurban trackage we had at one time this hits a soft spot for most Hoosiers. Good luck at the National.

Doug
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: sdrees on July 11, 2019, 05:59:30 PM
Congratulations

Fr


Congratulations on your awards Bob 1st and 2 nd in your factory
The
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: bparrish on July 12, 2019, 12:35:06 AM
Steve.....


Thanx for letting me know. 


See ya
Bob
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: Jim Donovan on July 12, 2019, 10:08:02 PM
OK Bob;

What did you exactly win and came in second? Obviously you did great, congratulations.

Jim D
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: GPdemayo on July 13, 2019, 09:09:11 AM
Atta boy Bob..... 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Overhead Trolley Work Motor Project
Post by: postalkarl on July 13, 2019, 11:10:47 AM
Hey Bob:

Very cool I really love the interior.

Karl