I have started construction of the Delaware & Northern Railroad version 1.0.
The prototype was originally organized in 1904 as the Delaware & Eastern, and trains were running over the line by 1906. The tracks connected with the New York, Ontario & Western in East Branch and with the Ulster & Delaware in Arkville, running for 37 miles along the East Branch of the Delaware River near the western edge of the Catskill Mountains. After an attempt to extend the railroad to Middleburg, NY and a connection with the Schoharie & Middleburg failed miserably leaving the railroad awash in debt, the D&E filed bankruptcy in 1910, and emerged as the Delaware & Northern. New York City bought the railroad in 1939 to allow them to build a dam at Downsville, NY, creating the Pepacton Reservoir to supply water to the city. Today over half of the Delaware & Northern roadbed resides at the bottom of the reservoir, along with the villages and farms that once occupied the valley.
I live alone in a large farmhouse. Despite extensive remodeling including wall and ceiling insulation, replacement windows, and new siding my house is very expensive to heat. In the winter I close off the entire upstairs, move my dining room furniture to the living room, bring a few comfortable chairs into the dining room, and close off the living room as well. Because of this, potential bedroom or basement locations for a layout suffer from a lack of heat. After spending some time thinking about how I might build a layout, I decided the best approach would be to construct something easy to disassemble and move in the future.
In the past couple months I have worked through several failed attempts to design a layout that could be disassembled for moving. I constructed and then discarded components that were too cumbersome to move easily, others that lacked rigidity, and some that warped after assembly. In short, I found designing lightweight portable construction to be its own challenge.
I have settled on a module or domino system for construction using separate tables, each with its own complete set of legs. This was done so that I can assemble or disassemble the layout by myself without worrying about how to support a section that lacks all four legs. I built it so the table tops detach from the leg assemblies for ease of relocation, thinking that would make it easier to negotiate stairs. Each table is connected to the adjoining table with carriage bolts. At this time, the layout consists of three modules, two that are 30" x 48" and bolt end to end. A third 24" by 36" table is bolted to the front left side of one of the larger modules, resulting in an L shaped layout with an overall dimension of 66" by 96". It currently resides in one corner of my dining room, but is sized so that it will fit into a spare bedroom. It could also become part of a larger basement layout should I decide to go that route.
If you want to come along for the ride, get your ticket, grab a coach seat, and settle in for a slow and somewhat bumpy ride, not unlike passenger service on the real Delaware & Northern.
I'll be following along, bumpy ride and all.
I'm on board.
Jeff
I just paid for my ticket - I'm along for the ride. Sounds like a great project.
Like anything, you have to build it from the ground up. You're taking the best path....getting a solid foundation or in your situation, a foundation both solid and mobile, one step at a time, assessing, then revising or moving to the next one. Your patience and persistence is admirable. Will look in on your reports.
Jerry,
Count me in with all the others. I'll be watching and learning.
Tom ;D
Quote from: MAP on February 06, 2018, 07:42:51 AM
I'll be following along, bumpy ride and all.
Mark,
It got really bumpy in the later years, some rail joints were a couple inches apart. Thanks for coming along.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on February 06, 2018, 07:44:34 AM
I'm on board.
Jeff
Jeff,
Glad to have you along, enjoy the ride.
Quote from: Blazeman on February 06, 2018, 08:08:11 AM
Like anything, you have to build it from the ground up. You're taking the best path....getting a solid foundation or in your situation, a foundation both solid and mobile, one step at a time, assessing, then revising or moving to the next one. Your patience and persistence is admirable. Will look in on your reports.
Thanks for coming on the ride. I'm going to post a few of my not so successful ideas in hopes of saving someone else time and effort.
Quote from: ACL1504 on February 06, 2018, 09:17:53 AM
Jerry,
Count me in with all the others. I'll be watching and learning.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Really glad to have you along. I strongly suspect you'll be doing a lot more watching than learning.
The conductor has hollered, "All aboarrrd', and I can hear the whistle echoing off the surrounding hills, so lets get this party started.
My house, except for a small addition was built prior to 1900. Like most houses of this age, things sag. That means simply, there is not a level floor to be found. I had to have some kind of adjustable legs to keep the layout level. I thought, "Why not use furniture hardware to attach and adjust the legs?"
First of all, the plastic feet were too soft and deformed easily. That was an easy fix, replace the feet with PVC pipe caps. I made some 2x2 legs by ripping 2x4's and drilled the ends for the leveling feet. I used 5/16" Tee nuts, 3/4" PVC pipe caps, and 5/16" x 2 1/2" carriage bolts. This solved the leveling problem. I was off and running.
I should mention the most difficult part of making the leg levelers was centering the hole I drilled in the PVC pipe caps. The ends of the caps were rounded and the drill bit wanted to wander off center despite using a center punch to mark the hole location.
I fastened a 1"x4" to the bottom of the layout and screwed the commercial leg hardware to it. Then I drilled the 2x2' legs and inserted a hanger bolt in the end. The hanger bolts have a 5/16" machine thread on one end that fits into the leg hardware, a lag on the other that goes into the end of the leg. I screwed the lag end into the leg, tightened the threaded end into the bracket, and my table shook like a willow in a windstorm. I added horizontal and diagonal bracing. Much better, but still not as rigid as I would like.
Now I am guessing you already see the problem with all this... Once I added the bracing, it was no longer easy to detach the legs from the table. First, all the bracing had to be removed, then the layout needed to be supported while each leg was unscrewed. Back to the drawing board...
I decided to move on and build the table tops while I waited for inspiration to solve the leg problem.
Missed the train but I'll catch up
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/QIKJAskDEk3Ru/giphy.gif)
I built a basic frame from 1x4 lumber, nothing unusual or fancy. I topped the tables with some nice clean 1/4" plywood. The frames were screwed together with sheet rock screws, the plywood was nailed in place with some small finish nails courtesy of my air nailer.
Now I had an idea for legs. I would use 1x3 and 1x4 lumber screwed together to make an L shaped leg. I would screw 12" long pieces of the 2x2's to the bottom of the legs, with the leg levelers in the 2x2's as I had done earlier. FWIW, if I were building a permanent layout, this is the leg construction I would use.
I was pretty happy with this design until I began to wonder how to fasten the legs to the tables in a way that they could be detached easily. I drew a blank.
My final design was to go back to the 2x2 legs. I screwed two pieces of 2x2 to the farme of the table top, making a socket for each leg to fit into. At first I had a problem trying to get the sockets sized right so the legs would slip in and out of the sockets easily, but keep the sockets tight enough to avoid the legs moving within the socket. I solved that issue by using pieces of .020 chipboard (leftover roof cards) as a spacer when fastening the socket pieces to the frame.
This worked great until I started moving the tables around while adding the leg bracing. At that time it became apparent that the 1/4" plywood that I had used as a weight saving measure was not going to work. Back to the lumber yard, get some 1/2' plywood and some 1" long sheet rock screws. Replace the tops, tables are heavier, but now the table assemblies are rock solid.
Jan,
That is really not a problem.
In later years the D&N provided passenger service using a Brill gasoline car. It was dubbed "The Red Heifer" by the locals due to its color and "Blat" horn. It would stop along the line to take children to school or pick up riders.
Glad to have you along!
(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trainweb.org%2Foldtimetrains%2Fimages%2Fdurr405.jpg&hash=d13562b963d4458f49a83b7429625372f40f2029)
Jan,
That is a photo of the Delaware & Ulster Rail Ride's diesel rail car. It was painted like and named for the Delaware & Northern car. The DURR operates a tourist train in both directions on the former Ulster & Delaware tracks out of Arkville, NY, the point where the D&N interchanged with the U&D.
I thought I would take a moment to explain my high tech lighting solution to a portable layout. As I mentioned in my introductory post, at this time, the layout resides in my dining room. Like most dining rooms, the lighting consists primarily of a chandelier in the center of the room.
My original thought was to run a 1x2 or 1x3 vertically up the rear of the modules behind the Masonite backdrop and use the clamp on lights. I had planned to fasten it to the cross brace for the legs using a spacer, and screw it to the rear frame member of the table.
Then it occurred to me it would be easier to balance the lights to eliminate shadows if I could move them horizontally after I had installed them. I looked for and found the quart of wall paint I had saved for touchup. That made it an easy decision to hunt up a spare piece of 2x3, locate the studs behind the sheet rock and use three screws to attach the 2x3 to the wall. When I move the layout, a little spackle and a quick touchup and the wall will be good as new, or at least no worse than it was before.
I strongly recommend that you not try this shortcut unless you have no significant other to answer to.
The backdrop is made from 1/8" Masonite. Quarter inch thick Masonite would probably be better because it is less flexible, but the lumber for this project has already wreaked havoc on my modeling budget, so I went with what I had on hand.
As part of this I have one corner module. Once I had the Masonite screwed in place with one piece overlapping the end of the other piece, I needed to fasten them securely to keep them in alignment. I went to my pile of saved lumber and dug out a piece of 1/4" Masonite paneling. I ripped a couple pieces 2 1/2" wide the height of the backdrop and glued and nailed them together at a 90 degree angle. I then glued them to the back of the corner, fastening them to the module frame with a screw, and using clamps to hold the top tight until the glue dried.
The other seams are held in alignment by 2" wide pieces of 1/8" Masonite with a 1" x 2" wide block glued to the top edge. I then glued a 2" x 2" piece of Masonite onto the 1" x 2" block making a 1" deep socket that I slid over the top edge where the backdrop panels meet. I used a screw to fasten the bottom of this piece to the back frame rail. I used no glue for this, so after removing the screw, the modules and backdrop simply pull apart. The blocks show at the very top of the backdrop, but I do not find them objectionable.
Hey Jerry.....you're making Rube Goldberg proud. ;D ;D ;D
Greg,
It's a well kept secret that Rube honed his craft as my apprentice. Ssshh. Don't tell!
Follow along for lots more simple solutions to complex problems.
I decided to try using 1" foam under the tracks on this layout. I have always used Homasote in the past but decided to change it up. My thinking was that the foam would be easier to remove to allow for some variation in the terrain.
I used a tube of Liquid Nails latex construction adhesive to bond the foam to the plywood. I protected the top of the foam using the 1/4" plywood pieces I had removed from a prior construction effort. As you can see, I got pretty creative when finding weights to hold everything down. I don't know if it was necessary, but I left the weights in place overnight.
After removing the weights, I found some of the foam panels had slightly different heights where they met. Out came the sander and in just a few minutes the joints were much better. While this did create a little dust, most of it was caught by the bag on the sander.
One thing I had not realized until I started measuring is that 2' x 8' foam sheets really aren't. The ones I have are more like 23 3/4" x 95 1/2". In order to have the edges line up exactly with the ends of the modules, there was a place where the sheets did not meet tightly in the center of the module. I filled this gap with some Dap Dry Dex joint compound. This filler starts out pink and turns white when it is dry. It took a couple coats to get it nice and even. I used a wet sponge to clean up (wet sand?) any excess after it dried.
Quote from: jerryrbeach on February 08, 2018, 09:05:49 AM
Greg,
It's a well kept secret that Rube honed his craft as my apprentice. Ssshh. Don't tell!
Follow along for lots more simple solutions to complex problems.
You're secret is safe with me..... ;)
Now I'm at a point where I'm a little stuck.
In the past I have simply chosen a color that looked like blue sky and painted the backdrop a uniform blue color.
I would like to try to blend some white into the blue and lighten the sky as it gets closer to the horizon. I've watched a couple videos on how to do this, but I'm looking for any tips that might make this easier for a rookie. Anyone done this? Any tips?
Quote from: GPdemayo on February 08, 2018, 09:22:00 AM
Quote from: jerryrbeach on February 08, 2018, 09:05:49 AM
Greg,
It's a well kept secret that Rube honed his craft as my apprentice. Ssshh. Don't tell!
Follow along for lots more simple solutions to complex problems.
You're secret is safe with me..... ;)
Thanks, I'll sleep a lot better tonight.
Quote from: jerryrbeach on February 08, 2018, 09:23:17 AM
Now I'm at a point where I'm a little stuck.
In the past I have simply chosen a color that looked like blue sky and painted the backdrop a uniform blue color.
I would like to try to blend some white into the blue and lighten the sky as it gets closer to the horizon. I've watched a couple videos on how to do this, but I'm looking for any tips that might make this easier for a rookie. Anyone done this? Any tips?
Here's a thought, try this on some scrap before going for real: Get both white paint and sky blue paint. Put a relatively thin band of white paint (water the paint a little bit) along the horizon. Then dip your brush into the blue paint, start at the bottom and pull up to the top of the sky. The idea is to mix the still wet white paint in with the blue paint. You'll probably want a roller to even things out.
dave
Dave's proposal sounds like it would work. What I did on my own layout was start out with Sherwin Williams 'Baby Blue' (a pretty light blue) for the base coat and paint a stripe of much darker blue at the top, then blend with mostly horizontal strokes.
Quote from: deemery on February 08, 2018, 10:24:22 AM
Quote from: jerryrbeach on February 08, 2018, 09:23:17 AM
Now I'm at a point where I'm a little stuck.
In the past I have simply chosen a color that looked like blue sky and painted the backdrop a uniform blue color.
I would like to try to blend some white into the blue and lighten the sky as it gets closer to the horizon. I've watched a couple videos on how to do this, but I'm looking for any tips that might make this easier for a rookie. Anyone done this? Any tips?
Here's a thought, try this on some scrap before going for real: Get both white paint and sky blue paint. Put a relatively thin band of white paint (water the paint a little bit) along the horizon. Then dip your brush into the blue paint, start at the bottom and pull up to the top of the sky. The idea is to mix the still wet white paint in with the blue paint. You'll probably want a roller to even things out.
dave
Dave,
I definitely planned to practice on some extra pieces of Masonite. The demos I have seen started with the blue and added the white, blending the colors with a brush. I have doubts I could do that without leaving brush marks. I think starting with the white and using a roller are both good suggestions. Thanks for your input.
Quote from: jbvb on February 08, 2018, 12:11:38 PM
Dave's proposal sounds like it would work. What I did on my own layout was start out with Sherwin Williams 'Baby Blue' (a pretty light blue) for the base coat and paint a stripe of much darker blue at the top, then blend with mostly horizontal strokes.
James,
I'm still thinking this over, but I like your idea. I might go with three colors, by mixing some white into a container of blue to give me a light blue rather than trying to blend the darker blue and white directly on the backdrop. I'm thinking this might help me extend the drying time. I am concerned that if I do not work quickly enough I could get myself in a mess. Thanks for your suggestion. I need to give this a little more thought, and then practice on a spare piece of Masonite.
Jerry,
Looking great my friend. Very well done. I see you use the same type weights I do to hold the foam down. 8)
Tom ;D
Over the years, I have tried a few methods of track planning.
First, I started by sketching freehand, but what I drew never, ever fit when it came time to lay the track.
Then, I dug out my old drafting supplies and started drawing everything to scale. You guessed it, when it came time to lay track, it still didn't fit.
I tried to learn some track planning software on the computer but found I spent more time yelling at the computer than actually getting anything done. (Stupid computers do not seem to listen or care.)
A friend suggested I mark out my space on a clear area of the floor and then apply masking tape where I wanted the track. I tried this, but found getting back up took longer than the time I spent crawling around the floor laying tape.
I fell back on the simplest method I could think to use. Lay out a sheet of brown paper and use actual track and a marker to draw the building footprints. I also use some cardstock mockups of structures.
While I keep playing with the track arrangement, I have been sorting thru potential backdrop photos.
Quote from: ACL1504 on February 09, 2018, 09:33:08 AM
Jerry,
Looking great my friend. Very well done. I see you use the same type weights I do to hold the foam down. 8)
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks for dropping by and your kind words. I was beginning to think I wouldn't find enough "weights", but I did.
I haven't had a lot of time to devote to working on the layout in the last few days.
I have pretty well finalized the track plan. I'm sure I will make some small changes when I start laying track, but it is very close. I sprayed the track with a Rustoleum Camo brown rattle can. I plan to paint the rails and weather the ties after the track is in place, but this supplies a base color to work from.
I primed the Masonite backdrop, and used some earth colored latex to coat the pink and blue foam. Like the track, this is just an undercoat to help keep the glaring pink foam from showing through later should the scenery be damaged.
I have been doing some practice backdrop painting on a piece of scrap Masonite. I have also been looking at backdrop photo options. The photos I had planned to use didn't really give me the effect I was looking for when I taped them to the backdrop and left them there for a few days.
That's about it for now.
Jerry,
Nice and clean, for now anyway. Looking forward to seeing the track plan. This is going to be fun.
Tom ;D
Quote from: ACL1504 on February 13, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
Jerry,
Nice and clean, for now anyway. Looking forward to seeing the track plan. This is going to be fun.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks for checking in. You're right, for me the fun part is just starting.
My backdrop painting adventure did not turn out as I had hoped and planned.
If you recall, I had hoped to fade the blue sky to a lighter hue as it approached the horizon. My practice panel gave me a chance to blend the colors using a foam brush. I attempted to do the same on the backdrop, working on each section (module) of the backdrop separately. I started with my sky blue color and mixed a lighter color by adding white to it until it looked more "horizon like" to me. I used a roller to roll the darker blue across the 8" more or less of the top, then rolled the lighter blue across the bottom. I used a foam brush to try to pull the colors together and blend them. This seemed to work OK if I worked very quickly, given how fast the paint was drying. Once I finished and everything dried completely, I had two different blue colors, the issue was that they did not really fade or blend, but I was left with a line across the sky where the color changed.
At that point, I decided to cut my losses, admit I have less than zero artistic talent, paint the entire backdrop with one shade of blue, and move on.
Side note: I used 1/8" Masonite for the backdrop as I have a good supply of it that cost me nothing. When assembling the modules, I worked hard to line the seams between the sections as tightly as possible. After applying the paint, the Masonite moved all on its own, and not in unison. The tightest backdrop seam at assembly is now the most uneven. I did not prime the back of the Masonite, and thus do not know if that would have helped, but it is something I will try next time.
Time for a brief, I hope, history lesson on the D&N.
The D&N, when constructed, connected a group of small villages along the East Branch of the Delaware River, most with fewer than 500 inhabitants. The valley widened along the northern half of the railroad and the area economy was based on primarily on agriculture. Almost every village had a creamery, most built by the railroad. After milk, lumber in many forms, bluestone, and vegetable crops were the norm. The predominant type of manufacturing was based on the lumber industry, with a barrel stave factory, handle factory, shingle mill, excelsior mills, and wood acid factories.
The D&N, for the most part, followed a simple formula when it came to the trackage serving the villages. Most featured a passing siding and anywhere from one to a few spurs serving the needs of that village. I based my freelance plan for this layout on the way the D&N served its customers.
My basic plan is a passing siding with here industrial spurs serving the local industries. There is a longer spur that curves onto the "L" section of the layout, for whatever industry ends up in that space. I also added a couple tracks next to the backdrop that can be used for staging when the layout is expanded.
As indicated in an earlier post, I covered the layout in brown paper and laid track and switches on the paper, rearranging them multiple times until I got what I felt would fit in the space and offer a reasonable amount of operation. I then drew the outline of the track and switches on the paper.
I slipped my cutting mat under the paper and used a scalpel and straight edge to cut out the paper about 1/8" wide along the center of the straight sections. I did the same at the ends of the switches, and at various points where the track was curved. I used a marker to draw through the slots I had cut, thus transferring the plan onto the brown painted foam. I pulled off the paper and had the bare bones of the plan drawn onto the foam.
I had noted the radius of the curved sections (remember I drew the plan using actual sectional track components), and I simply wrote these numbers in the appropriate places on the foam. I then used a trammel stick to draw in the curve centerlines. Of course, not everything transferred exactly, so I used the track components to double check that everything would more or less fit as planned.
Jerry,
You are having to much fun! However, it is looking good.
I enjoyed the history of the D&N and what you are planning for switching, lots of opportunities.
I'm getting anxious to start my third level so I can have more fun myself.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks for looking in and your nice comment.
It should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway; I'll be watching the next phase of the A&S construction.
I mentioned earlier that I envision using these modules as part of an ongoing process toward constructing a layout. I want to include at least basic staging so I laid out a track along the backdrop. Then I added a passing siding to the first track. My idea is to use structures and a low hill to somewhat block the view of the staging track. These tracks are not really accessible with the three modules I am working on now, but rather part of the master plan.
Since I wanted this track to be less noticeable, I laid it directly on the foam. By doing this, I needed a way to transition from the foam to the cork roadbed. After a little thought, I decided one way to do this would be to use wood shingles, since they already feature a nice long taper. I had purchased purchased wood shingles for a project several years ago, and saved the ones I did not use.
Jerry
I'm really enjoying your thread - your layout is really looking great. I will be following your progress.
Quote from: S&S RR on February 16, 2018, 09:13:38 AM
Jerry
I'm really enjoying your thread - your layout is really looking great. I will be following your progress.
John,
Thanks for following along, and your nice comment.
I did some research online to see how other modelers fasten their track and roadbed to the surface of the layout. Many modelers use white glue to hold the cork to the layout. I considered using that method, but wasn't sure how well the white glue would bond with the foam. The method I decided to use was to bond the roadbed to the foam was to use latex caulk. Thus far, this has worked well, though I have found I need to use lots of weights to hold the cork in place while the caulk dries. When I have had to move some of the already bonded cork roadbed, I have been able to slide a putty knife under the cork and separate it from the foam with only minor damage to the foam.
If you decide to use this method, be sure to buy the latex caulk and not the latex caulk with silicone added.
Once I got my tables fastened together, I started thinking about an easy way to turn on my "Rube Goldberg" lighting. My solution was to attach a power strip to one of the leg braces near the front of the layout. Now it is not only to turn the lights on and off, I have a convenient place to plug in my Dremel, vacuum, and later the layout power.
One reason I am building this layout is that several years ago I built a couple specific structures for Pepacton, NY. I also purchased kits that are very similar to a couple other buildings, including the D&N station. Unfortunately, no matter how hard I tried, I could not manage to squeeze room for Pepacton into the layout I designed for my unfinished cellar space. Even though I am not modeling Pepacton specifically on this current layout, I will be using a couple of the structures. I was digging through some old SD photo cards and came across a few photos I had taken of my version of the Pepacton Feed Store. I thought I would share one here since IMO it is more interesting than most photos I have been posting to the thread.
Good looking feed store Jerry..... 8)
Quote from: GPdemayo on February 16, 2018, 03:43:15 PM
Good looking feed store Jerry..... 8)
Thank you, Greg. Compliments are always welcome!
I'm planning to find some time to work on the layout today, and maybe post an update.
The track gang has been busy, though there is still a long way to go before they will be done.
I used three different methods to cut the track. My favorite, and the fastest is to use the Xuron flush cutting pliers. The drawback is that only one side cuts flush. The other side of the cut is jagged and the rail has to be cut again to make the ends square.
The Dremel requires a steady hand to get a clean vertical and square cut. If done right, both ends of the cut rails do not need a second cut to be ready to be used.
I used the Zona saw and miter box for one specific cut where I needed both rails to fit together exactly and the Dremel would have removed too much material, ditto the Xuron.
I used the triangular file to nick the tops of the rail to mark the cut location. I used the flat file to square the ends of the rail if necessary, and also to remove any burrs caused by the cut.
Not pictured in this photo because I was wearing them are my safety glasses. Obviously, when using the Dremel, safety glasses are a necessity. I wear them when cutting with the Xuron pliers, too, short cutoff rail ends fly fast and in unpredictable directions. In fact, I usually put them on when I start working on the layout, and leave them on until I stop.
I mentioned when describing the track planning that I had drawn the center line for the track onto the painted foam using the paper template. I bonded the cork with the adhesive keeping it centered on the line. This made it easy to align the track, as long as it is centered on the cork, everything fits as planned. Once the cork was bonded in place, I used a sanding block with some 80 grit paper to sand the cork so that it was at a uniform height.
First I would locate any turnouts, or other critical pieces, like the joints where the tables separate. I would use some track nails to hold those pieces in place temporarily and measure and cut the adjacent tracks to length. Once all pieces for one section were cut, I would test fit everything in place and make sure I had it as precise as possible.
After that, I would lay it aside, lay down a bead of the latex caulk on the cork, spread the caulk thinly with a putty knife, then lay the track in place. I would secure the track using track nails, most of which went back into the original holes I had made when test fitting everything. After that, lots of weights and wait for the caulk to dry.
The track is done, for the most part. I haven't finished up the "L" section (left top of the photo), still not sure what I am going to model in that area.
Next up is wiring, my absolute least favorite part of the hobby. This will take some thought since each module has to be wired separately, and then connected to the others so all will operate as one. Given my dislike of wiring, I'll be working on some structures while doing the wiring. That should keep me motivated through a task I find less than enjoyable.
Photo shows the plan, shot from the current open end. The track extending into the foreground by the joint at the end is on a small piece of makeshift table top. The one foot wide piece is screwed to the module to allow some limited operation prior to construction of the next module, and continuation of the track.
I have been taking advantage of the unseasonably warm weather to work outside so there is not much progress on the layout to report.
I have placed a few structures on the layout and put together cardboard mockups for other possible structures. In a couple other spots I have simply placed a square of paper that represents the footprint of a structure. These get moved around frequently as I have some new ideas on what might look better.
Jerry,
Well done on the track and roadbed. The track plan looks like it will present many opportunities for switching.
One thing I could never do is make myself do the white building mock ups. Usually it didn't cause any issues, but there is always that Murphy guy standing off to the side and he gets me now and then.
Looking really good Jerry.
Tom ;D
Jerry,
I've been lurking over your pages here. I'm pickin' up, what you're laying down. Love the track work, looks to have some interesting switching moves for sure. That Pepacton feed store looks awesome.
If that master manufacturer Jimmy D. can get you some of his new castings to include with your structure building. I think the rest of us will be served a big dish of eye candy for sure, and being horizontally challenged as I'am. I know my candy. :D
Thanx Thom...
Great progress Jerry. I'm having fun watching your layout come to life.
Quote from: ACL1504 on February 26, 2018, 05:35:04 PM
Jerry,
Well done on the track and roadbed. The track plan looks like it will present many opportunities for switching.
One thing I could never do is make myself do the white building mock ups. Usually it didn't cause any issues, but there is always that Murphy guy standing off to the side and he gets me now and then.
Looking really good Jerry.
Tom ;D
Tom,
I think that a small layout such as mine has to be approached almost like a diorama. I am trying to distract the viewer from noticing how congested this is for a small town. The use of the mockups allows me to have a better idea of where I want the viewer to focus, and how to draw his attention to certain scenes. If I can do that successfully then the small overall size is less obvious. Thankfully many kit manufacturers include full size drawings with the instructions. I simply copy the drawings onto some 110# cardstock using my printer, cut them out, a little scotch tape, and I am better able to visualize how things fit together.
Quote from: tct855 on February 26, 2018, 06:47:02 PM
Jerry,
I've been lurking over your pages here. I'm pickin' up, what you're laying down. Love the track work, looks to have some interesting switching moves for sure. That Pepacton feed store looks awesome.
If that master manufacturer Jimmy D. can get you some of his new castings to include with your structure building. I think the rest of us will be served a big dish of eye candy for sure, and being horizontally challenged as I'am. I know my candy. :D
Thanx Thom...
Thom,
Thanks for following along. IMO, a smaller layout offers many opportunities for super detailing. I usually add a few castings to each structure when I build it. I have lots more saved in the hopes they will help the layout come to life. I love George's castings and am looking forward to having them available outside of his kits.
Quote from: MAP on February 27, 2018, 07:37:51 AM
Great progress Jerry. I'm having fun watching your layout come to life.
Mark,
Thanks for following along.
Progress has slowed due to the unseasonably warm weather, but I hope to get back up to speed when temperatures turn colder at the end of the week.
I have done research into what the track and ties would have probably looked like on the D&N around 1920. It is doubtful that any of the ties used in the original construction were treated with creosote and also likely that most (all?) of the replacement ties were untreated. Photos show that the original ballast was gravel, and in many photos has an appearance closer to dirt than gravel. The only track that looks like it had cinder ballast was that in the vicinity of the engine house in Margaretville, along with track between there and Arkville, a couple miles north. Remnants of the roadbed that I have explored in other areas show no evidence of any cinders.
This means the roadbed will have a pretty non-traditional look. The ties will be a weathered gray, not the darker brown/black modelers are used to seeing on a layout. The ballast will be gravel or dirt, with a few areas of cinders.
I used an old chunk of fiber tie brass track glued to a scrap piece of 1x3 to do a test strip of track and ballast. I started by spraying the track and ties with Rustoleum camo brown as I did with the track on the layout. I have experimented with using sand for ballast. I sifted some "traction sand" from Lowe's through two different mesh screens. It looks OK, but I think it might look better if it had a little more reddish/brownish cast more typical of the area. I think I will purchase some tinted grout and try adding that to the sifted sand to see if coloring it slightly offers a better appearance.
I painted most of the ties varying shades of gray using acrylic paint. I secured the ballast using diluted white glue. I was a little disappointed to note that after the glue dried there was a faint sheen to the ballast and ties. I gave the test strip a quick shot of Dullcoat to kill the sheen. Obviously, I cannot spray the entire layout with Dullcoat, so further experimentation is planned, this time using matte medium.
The test strip was photographed next to a more traditional cinder ballasted roadbed on a photo diorama. The right end of the test strip was ballasted with sifted dirt to give an idea of what industrial spurs might look like.
In 1920, in that area most ties would have been untreated American Chestnut. But the Chestnut Blight was killing the trees off rapidly, so by 1930 there would be some new creosoted oak replacements.
Jerry,
I believe the look you are going for will be wonderful. I do like the idea on lighter ties and gravel or dirt ballast. I think your layout, er diorama, will be just perfect.
I definitely like the idea of staying as close to the original D&N as you can. It's the main reason I removed all the mountains on the 1st. A&S RR and redid it in Florida scenery.
All thumbs up from me my friend.
Tom ;D
Quote from: jbvb on March 11, 2018, 12:06:24 PM
In 1920, in that area most ties would have been untreated American Chestnut. But the Chestnut Blight was killing the trees off rapidly, so by 1930 there would be some new creosoted oak replacements.
James,
Thanks for your observations, I believe that Chestnut would have been preferred for ties due to its relative longevity and density when left untreated in the weather. I hadn't thought about any specific species of wood for the ties, simply based my conclusions on a couple things.
First, the early rail group on yahoo had a discussion on treated vs. untreated ties around the turn of the Century. At the time, only a few of the larger railroads were treating ties, the majority of the railroads used non-treated ties since it was cheaper to replace ties than to treat them. Obviously, this changed as the forests were cut off and ties increased substantially in price roughly around the end of WWI.
Second, most photos of the D&N roadbed show ties and ballast as lighter than the rails in black and white photos. Coupled with this, in my visits to the area, very few sections of the remaining roadbed show any evidence of cinder ballast.
This led me to try to model the track and roadbed for this barely solvent shortline differently than that seen on most model railroads.
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 11, 2018, 02:03:53 PM
Jerry,
I believe the look you are going for will be wonderful. I do like the idea on lighter ties and gravel or dirt ballast. I think your layout, er diorama, will be just perfect.
I definitely like the idea of staying as close to the original D&N as you can. It's the main reason I removed all the mountains on the 1st. A&S RR and redid it in Florida scenery.
All thumbs up from me my friend.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks for following along, and especially for your positive comments. I often find the research to be as rewarding as the modeling itself.
I have closely followed the construction of the A&S and appreciate your modeling of scenery and structures specific to Florida.
Jerry,
Glad to see you are starting a layout. From now on, its just fun, well almost. I like the idea of making test samples of mainline and siding track for ballast, ties, etc.. I have done the same. I also have done this with materials for road crossing the tracks. I have been using Delorean Grey grout for streets. It gives a nice texture, you can scribe in expansion lines and create wonderful cracks in the road. I apply a light wash of A&I to weather the street a bit. FYI.
I noticed on your recent post that you have a couple of what appears to be a couple of new ties on the siding. They appear a bit too new. Since most sidings were owned by the company that the railroad served and not the railroad, most companies did not replace ties unless there was a fire or flood. The ones in your photo look a bit new, almost shiny. I like the ballast color, texture and weathering on both the mainline and siding. If you could tone down the three ties on the siding, you might like that better. Just my humble opinion. Keep up the great work.
Frank / Erieman
Frank,
Thanks for stopping by as well as your insightful comment. I agree with you, the creosote ties simply look out of place. That is a big reason I decided to try a test strip. I will be staying with weathered gray tones for the ties, with a few light tan ones to indicate less weathered replacements.
The jury is still out on the color of the gravel ballast. I'll be visiting my friend Jim this Saturday and will check out a bag of sand he has in his garage. It may be closer to the brownish color I think would be more representative of the gravel in the area I am modeling.
Jerry,
Ballast is one of the most difficult decisions to make and control on your railroad. My first suggestion, once you find the right color, is to get a bunch of it. I made the mistake of not getting "more than enough" and have suffered because of it. Each time a batch is made by a supplier, the color changes. I have recommended to several friends on the forum to buy from one supplier at one time and get more than you think you need. All this evolves around store bought ballast. Remember there is real rock and fake rock ballast. I have recommended Arizona Rock to many folks. They can send you as much as you need once you pick the color. That's the hard part. If you call Arizona Rock, they will tell you the formula for calculating the ballast required per linear foot.
If you are going to make your own, just remember to make a bunch. a big bunch. It is surprising how much ballast you go thru on a layout, especially if you start off small, like many of us, and then the layout grows. Best of luck with this part of the puzzle.
Frank / Erieman
Frank,
Thanks for the excellent advice.
The sand I used for my test piece seemed too gray to me, so I added some sifted dirt to change the color slightly. I am trying to find some bagged sand from a lumber yard or home improvement store that better approximates the color of gravel in the area traversed by the real D&N, so I can use it straight from the bag. I believe buying a 50 lb. bag should provide enough material to supply my layout as I add more modules. If I do have to shift the shade slightly by adding some sifted dirt, I doubt I'll run out of dirt as I have a five gallon bucket of dirt stored in my garage.
After sifting sand from three different bags, I think I have settled on the one I want to use for ballasting the D&N. That bag is definitely more brown than gray, and IMO it looks fairly close to the color of the gravel in the area I am modeling.
There is a color shift in the photos, I was working on my kitchen table in front of a bay window, and even though I tried to use the top of a cardboard box to block the light from the window, it did have an impact on the photos.
The last two photos are shot on a photo dio I built with cinder ballast to give a "baseline" to the gravel ballast. The fourth photo is after I used some black and dark brown chalks to tone down the stark gray ties.
I like the "end" result, but wonder if the last photo is too dark between the rails. Any thoughts?
Jerry lm following along now, if you find an area that you think is too dark you can always dry brush it to a Lighter shade.
Lynn,
Thanks for your response.
Apparently, I did not phrase my question clearly enough. What I am wondering is if coloring in the center of the track is too dark for a lightly used short line railroad. Many modelers darken the ballast between the rails with dark chalk or an A/I mix to get the look of leaking lubricants, coal dust, and so forth from steam locomotives. Given the much lower number of trains over the D&N than a main line railroad, I am wondering if I would be better served to leave all the ballast more uniform in color.
Well no matter what even if it's litely used there will still be some grease and oil spots , especially if cars are left on the track for loading and unloading and the weather raining down on them.
What I remember from Chinese steam tours in 1995 and 2005 was more ash and less lubricants between the rails, so more gray than black.. But by that time their rolling stock was mostly roller bearing. How many trains a day do you envision on the D&N?
James,
Thanks for your input. Even though I did not darken the ballast between the rails on the test strip all that much, I think I will go with a more uniform look to the ballast both inside and outside of the rails.
Based on a 1917 Passenger Timetable reprint, plus some other sources, there were two round trip passenger trains per day. One of the passenger trains apparently handled the milk car from the Andes branch, and I have found a photo that shows a milk train on the main. Also, based on the photo of a meet, it appears there were two daily way freights, one that served the Andes branch and the northern half of the line, a second that served the acid factory in Corbett and the south half of the railroad.
I believe that those five trains would duplicate the activity on a typical day around 1920.
I'm probably overthinking the layout wiring, but I am hopeful that by spending extra time now, it will be easier to diagnose any problems that might arise at a later date.
The layout is set up to run on DC with multiple blocks to allow operation of more than one train should I so desire. All connections are soldered and the wiring is color coded as much as possible. I did run out of a couple colors of wire and had to duplicate the color used for a couple different tracks.
The wiring from the track to the terminal blocks is now complete. Each module has its own terminal block. Those blocks are then connected into the main block, the large numbered block in the photo. Next up is to design and build a control panel. Then I can add the wiring from the main terminal block to the panel.
Keep the updates coming Jerry. I have been there before with the dc wiring and separate blocks.
Quote from: Lynnb on March 29, 2018, 10:19:41 PM
Keep the updates coming Jerry. I have been there before with the dc wiring and separate blocks.
Lynn,
I'm pretty much a lone wolf, very few active modelers live nearby, and I doubt this layout will ever be operated by anyone other than me. My engines are DC, and while DCC with sound would be great, I cannot justify the investment in both time and money.
Blocks are a much more elegant way to debug short circuits than cutting feeders loose from buses.
Quote from: jbvb on March 29, 2018, 11:21:28 PM
Blocks are a much more elegant way to debug short circuits than cutting feeders loose from buses.
James,
Anything that makes it easy to find and fix a short has my vote.
When I started in the hobby all I had was dc and a layout divided into quite a few blocks, I think the best part of designing it was seeing the atlas snap switches work from the control panel I made up. The layout also contained a couple reverse loops requiring toggles on the control panel flipped. I still have that 2'x2' control panel with all its dpdt switches on it.
Jerry;
I too have been lurking. Great work. Loved the feed store. You are modeling about same era as I am and the post on ballast and tie colors hit home. In Florida in 1908 the question was 'what ballast' And the tie color was 'worn out'. I'm going to have to rethink how that part of layout is going to look. Keep those posts coming for us beginners.
Quote from: Lynnb on March 30, 2018, 11:56:49 PM
When I started in the hobby all I had was dc and a layout divided into quite a few blocks, I think the best part of designing it was seeing the atlas snap switches work from the control panel I made up. The layout also contained a couple reverse loops requiring toggles on the control panel flipped. I still have that 2'x2' control panel with all its dpdt switches on it.
Lynn,
I finally dismantled my last control panel about a year ago, but kept the electrical components. Most of what I will have on the new panel will be recycled from the previous ones. I love the advantages of DCC, especially the sound, but never really considered using it for this small layout.
Quote from: Jim on April 05, 2018, 06:10:33 PM
Jerry;
I too have been lurking. Great work. Loved the feed store. You are modeling about same era as I am and the post on ballast and tie colors hit home. In Florida in 1908 the question was 'what ballast' And the tie color was 'worn out'. I'm going to have to rethink how that part of layout is going to look. Keep those posts coming for us beginners.
Jim,
Hard to believe you consider yourself a beginner based upon the quality of your modeling. The fact is, even though I have been in this hobby for over 50 years, I learn new things every day. It was only after starting this layout that I began to research how the roadbed would likely have appeared at the time. My previous layout, set about the same time, had cinder ballast and dark colored ties. The internet and the growth of local historical societies has made it so much easier to research specific locales, rather than relying on more generic published information.
I wanted to let everyone know that plans regarding this layout have changed over the summer. My original thought was to move this layout into a small upstairs bedroom. That bedroom was the home to my last layout. I planned and designed the modules and track plan for that space. Instead, I moved my sleeping space into an upstairs bedroom thus freeing up my former bedroom on the main floor. I now plan to use the first floor room for my layout. It offers several advantages including a larger floor space and no stairs to climb. I'm pretty excited since the new plan offers more of the things I wanted but could not fit into the smaller space of the upstairs room. The new plan will be strictly point to point and no longer require a duck under. The plan also features more aisle space, a longer run between the towns, and better viewing angles.
The layout is currently separated into its three modules and stored in my living room. I close that room off to save on heat, converting my seldom used dining room into a living room during the winter. I finished that conversion yesterday, exchanging the furniture in the rooms, and fastening a heavy drape across the doorway to the living room. A cold front is due here today and the drop in the outside temperatures will require me to start heating the house.
The good news is that the two main modules will fit easily in the new space and will function as part of the new track plan with only minor modifications to the existing track. At this point I am not sure where the third module might fit or if I will be dismantling it to use the lumber for a different size domino. I want to remodel the downstairs room, refinishing the hardwood floor and painting walls and ceiling before I move the layout into the room. I'm not sure how soon I'll be able to get started on that project since I am still devoting most of my time to the farm.
I was downloading some photos from one of my memory cards and stumbled across this photo of layout construction last winter. Yes, I am obviously that crazy, or maybe I was that desperate to build a layout. (I invoke my Fifth Amendment right.)
This is the latest structure I completed for the D&N. It is a B.T.S. kit modified slightly with a Tichy window in the side wall, metal roofing on the main building and some signs from the internet.
Jerry,
Excellent build on the watch repair building. Love the overall look and weathering.
I also think you will be much happier with the layout downstairs.
Tom ;D
Nice little build.
Neat build Jerry.....I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on the layout. 8)
Great little building Jerry! :D
Neat O! I'm comin' along late, but this is very interesting!
R/,
Norm
Quote from: ACL1504 on November 13, 2018, 08:26:46 AM
Jerry,
Excellent build on the watch repair building. Love the overall look and weathering.
I also think you will be much happier with the layout downstairs.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks for the compliment on the structure. I'm definitely looking forward to the larger space offered by the downstairs room.
Quote from: PRR Modeler on November 13, 2018, 10:02:08 AM
Nice little build.
Curt,
Thanks for dropping in and your nice comment.
Quote from: GPdemayo on November 13, 2018, 01:31:46 PM
Neat build Jerry.....I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on the layout. 8)
Greg,
Thanks for following along, though the layout is on hold until I get the room re-done. I appreciate the nice comment on the structure, too.
Quote from: ReadingBob on November 13, 2018, 03:07:46 PM
Great little building Jerry! :D
Bob,
Much appreciated coming from you!
Quote from: ndwolf68 on November 13, 2018, 03:33:13 PM
Neat O! I'm comin' along late, but this is very interesting!
R/,
Norm
Norm,
I think our layout construction using dominoes or modules is pretty similar. Mine already paid off when I decided to change rooms and was excited to find that two of the three not only fit, but require only minor modifications to the track. Thanks for looking in.
What time is it? 5:00!! :)
Just read through the thread Jerry. Some very nice modeling going on here.
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks for dropping by and your nice comment. Right now progress is slowed as I am bogged down with farm chores. I hope to get back at this soon.
My progress on my layout has gotten stalled due to some farm issues that have required a large amount of time. This has led me to focus on smaller modeling projects where I am able to work for a few minutes at a time without losing track of where I am in the process, primarily vehicle modeling.
I have, however, managed to (finally) figure out the track changes necessary to adapt two of the modules I constructed last winter to fit into a different room than originally planned and work with my revised track plan. After drawing out a scale diagram of the floor area and doodling with ideas, I resorted to my tried and true method of planning to see if what I had drawn on paper would fit in the real world. I dug out my box of old brass sectional track and used pieces of that to lay out the proposed plan, making changes as I learned what fit into the available space and what did not.
The changes to one module are easy, two sections of track will be removed and the feed mill spur will get relocated slightly. This spur will actually be lengthened, opening up more switching opportunities. The left front corner of this module will now connect to a narrow one foot wide module that will cross a window, rather than the two foot wide module in the initial plan.
The changes to the second module are more extensive. The basic track configuration with its passing siding will remain intact, but it will be moved closer to the center of the module. It was originally located near the front of this section of the layout. This will allow the track to connect with that on the newly designed end module without having to sacrifice aisle width. (Leaving the track where it is now would have resulted in a pinch point just past the entry to the layout room.) It also opens up space to move the station so passenger trains will now be able to stop at the station without blocking the crossing. The creamery will now be located "across the tracks", moving to the front edge of the layout with the tracks behind the building. This allows for a detailed scene with farmers delivering milk cans to the creamery.
I'm pretty excited that the new track design has opened up some opportunities for more detailed scenes along the front of the table. Now I have to find the time to start tearing up and relaying track to make the changes a reality.
Jerry,
Yep, real life 1:1 projects do have a priority.
I'm looking forward to seeing the changes you described above.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks for your encouraging words. Progress has come at a snail's pace, but there is progress!
This is a photo of what I am referring to as the "left module" since it is to the left of the other module when I face them. I have completed re-laying the track on this module. You can see where the track used to go in the unpainted areas.
The two tracks to the left edge will cross to the other side of the room on a one foot wide section of bench work that will cross in front of a window.
The white in front of the feed mill (red building) is where the road was located, now parking for the mill loading dock. The road will be where the piece of Masonite is residing. Located to the left of the feed mill will be a woodworking factory producing primarily crates and boxes. I have done some measuring and right now am planning to modify a Campbell Bret's Brewery kit to fit in this space. The other structures sitting on the layout are primarily placeholders to give me an idea of what the scene might look like when finished.
I have fallen behind with posting my progress on the layout.
I ripped up most of the track and cork roadbed on the right hand module. Removing the track from the cork went quite well. I used a wide bladed putty knife and kept sliding it between the ties and cork and prying up gently. Removing the cork from the foam was another matter. I used the same putty knife method, but the latex caulk would not give up its grip on the latex paint I had painted on the foam. I ended up with divots in the foam, and deemed it easier to buy new cork than to try to salvage the old.
I laid out the new track. It is very similar to the old plan but moved further back from the front of the table. More to follow...
I have managed major progress (at least from my point of view) this past week.
First up is a photo of the new track on the right module. The one unused turnout will lead to an industrial on the next module. I also screwed a short piece to the end of this module to install enough track to allow me to perform switching on the modules.
Once I got this far, I spent most of a day wiring the layout. All connections are soldered except for the two leads from the power pack to the main panel. I wired the layout for straight DC with control blocks. The switch panel is a leftover saved from a prior layout and will be replaced when the layout is expanded beyond the current two modules. I originally intended to simply set the power pack on a stool, but then decided building a shelf for it was worth the effort. The shelf is a temporary solution, once the layout is moved to its home location and more modules completed and attached I will use a tethered walk around for running the trains. I used a couple different locomotives to test the track and wiring and found a couple dead spots in the track as well as one turnout that needed a little work due to cars derailing when I backed them through it. This morning I found the track was kinked in one spot due to apparent expansion overnight. I added some spikes in that area, if that does not work as a permanent solution, I'll have to remove and shorten slightly one section of track in that location.
I started placing structures on the layout. Some are simply stand-in structures, whether paper mockups or left over from previous layouts. Many of those are not in the best condition, witness the water tank missing its spout saved from my son's layout when he was growing up. Obviously, there is a long way to go from here, but the layout is up and running, and I have been able to operate some trains on something more than my former temporary test track.
The ground is white, the wind is whistling, time to get back to work on the layout!
Working sporadically over the summer I have managed to get a couple structures done for the layout and thought I would post a few photos. First up is a Branchline Laserart row house kit #638. I modified the kit to reduce its depth due to space limitations, removing the rear stairway. I also cheated and did not detail the back wall since it cannot be seen once in place on the layout. I used the windows intended for the rear wall in the sides of the house. I also used pieces included for a shed to make the bay addition. Shingles are from the kit, the front porch is scratch. Shots from the Branchline website show the house as designed.
Jerry
Very nice work! Yes - it is modeling season. We got 10 inches, here. The tractor has been fitted with the plow.
Nice looking buildings.
Jerry,
I like how you kit bashed the structures to fit your space. That is part of building structures I like, making changes to fit my space.
They are very well done also.
Down here, it's modeling season year round. 8)
Tom ;D
Nice kit-bash Jerry. Looks great!
Quote from: S&S RR on November 12, 2019, 11:19:19 AM
Jerry
Very nice work! Yes - it is modeling season. We got 10 inches, here. The tractor has been fitted with the plow.
John,
Thanks for the compliment. We don't have enough to plow, I'm thankful for that.
Quote from: PRR Modeler on November 12, 2019, 11:49:45 AM
Nice looking buildings.
Curt,
Thanks for stopping in and the kind words.
Quote from: ACL1504 on November 12, 2019, 11:55:16 AM
Jerry,
I like how you kit bashed the structures to fit your space. That is part of building structures I like, making changes to fit my space.
They are very well done also.
Down here, it's modeling season year round. 8)
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks for your nice comment. It is so much easier to build structures to fit the available space now I have a layout started. It could be modeling season year around here, too. I just need to sell the cows, the farm and move to where I don't have to plow snow.
Quote from: MAP on November 13, 2019, 06:22:55 AM
Nice kit-bash Jerry. Looks great!
Thanks, Mark. I enjoy trying to figure out how to change a kit to better suit my era and location.
Slow going, still lots to do before the room is layout ready and I can move the modules into it.
Jerry great progress on the layout.
And some really great looking structures.
Is the ladder for the upper level??? ;)
Jerry
Jerry,
I used the step ladder to help me figure out how to light the room. Here's a pic of a fluorescent fixture, tried a similar four foot LED fixture but failed to take a photo. My bad!
Based on my very unscientific tests I have decided to go with the fluorescents as the shadows thrown by the structures are less noticeable than when I tried the LED light. I did price out lights of both styles with diffusers but the price more than doubled and I have no way to tell if they would help lessen the shadows.
One big problem with fluorescents is that they will fade your colors, UNLESS you spend the $ to put UV shields on them. For example, these: https://www.amazon.com/48-Blocking-Protects-Nano-Meters-PLAS-T8TGUV/dp/B002ZPK81O
dave
Dave,
Thanks for your input. I'm aware of the issue with fluorescents causing fading. I know that George Sellios has shields on his fluorescent bulbs for just this reason.
My first choice was to use LED lights, but the harsh shadows are a problem. This is in part due to the location of the ceiling joists dictating the location for installing the lights. If I could mount the LED lights in a better grid pattern, the shadows would be much less of an issue.
Hi Jerry,
I used LED light fixtures that I bought from Home Depot. They were the Home Depot LED shop lights that hang from the ceiling. They are light weight and I am really pleased with them. Here are a couple of pictures that might give you and idea how I used them.
Steve,
Thanks for taking time to post the photos of your layout lighting. This is just a guess on my part, but I think the higher ceiling in your space might be the reason the LED lights work well for you. The ceiling in my room is seven and a half feet. This places the lights in my room only about three feet above the layout. I think that is why the LED lights throw such dark shadows around the temporary structures I used to see how the lighting would impact the layout. Even though the lumens produced by the LED and fluorescents are very close, the LED fixtures are definitely brighter. To my eye, the light from the LED fixtures is more concentrated, too. The fluorescent shop light shown in my photo seems better diffuse the light it produces than the LED shop light I tried does.
I wanted to take a few minutes to update and explain my lighting choices. I did not find any information that I felt applied to my situation, given my room size and construction. Obviously, my options were limited by the joist locations and the layers of plaster on the ceiling. I also wanted to light the layout in a way that allowed my to return the room to its original purpose, i.e., a bedroom without it requiring a major renovation.
I went online and Googled some room lighting formulas. The formulas I found were similar, but not exactly the same. Plugging my room size and intended purpose (hobby / sewing was the closest I could find) into the formulas gave me a similar result from two I used. Both agreed that I needed about four and a half 48" fluorescent or LED fixtures. That rounded up to five fixtures according to both formulas.
My original plan was to space out the lights along the center of the room with the 48" dimension oriented across the width (approximately eight foot) of the room. I used my stepladder test fixture and found that doing this left the layout along the sides of the room in shadow while lighting what will be the center aisle.
Once I decided that was probably not going to work I turned the test light to be parallel to the length of the room, roughly fourteen to sixteen foot. The closet to the right of the entry door shortens the room by slightly over two feet. After more "tests" I realized that using two lights on the shorter side and three lights on the longer side left too many shadows on the shorter side of the room. My solution was to add a light and go with six 48" fixtures.
The next issue was that the ceiling joists were not only not on 16" centers, though not off by much. Further, the joist on the south side were roughly 30" from the wall while the joist on the north side was about 24" from the wall. Having tried in the past to use anchors to hang a ceiling light only to have a midnight crash, I ruled out locating any lights that could not be not attached to a joist.
I chose T8 fluorescent fixtures because my test with a 48" LED shop light threw much harsher shadows. I did choose to purchase and use cool white fluorescent bulbs. Dave Emery mentioned that there can be an issue with fading caused by fluorescent tubes. There are sleeves available that reduce if not eliminate this issue. Tony Koester's book "Designing and Building Multi-Deck Railroads" says that modelers he spoke with found fading from fluorescents to be a non-issue. Right now I am still in the bench work / track work stage so I have decided not to use the UV sleeves at this time. This is something I may revisit at a later date.
One other potential option that I did not explore is to mount LED bulbs in my fixtures. The LED bulbs for these T8 fixtures are readily available in a range of color temperatures and give off almost the same number of lumens as the fluorescent bulbs. I may at a later date buy a couple LED bulbs and swap out the fluorescent tubes in one of the lights. That will allow me to see if I might want to go with the LED bulbs in the future.
I hope that my experience and choices will help others with similar spaces to address their lighting with fewer unknowns than I faced. In the attached photos, the closet is to the right. The corner of the closet wall shows as a slightly different color, also the blue tape is where I taped off the switch to the ceiling box after removing the light fixture.
Finally! I injured my back last winter and work on my layout room came to an abrupt halt. Last week I cleared everything from the room and spent the week crawling around the floor installing a wood laminate floating floor. Once that was down, I transitioned to reinstalling the old baseboards wherever possible and adding new baseboard cap and quarter round floor trim. I have managed to finish most of the room remodel and moved five of the modules back into the room. I hooked the fluorescent fixtures to some short extension cords and plugged them into the ceiling where I changed out the light fixture for an outlet box. My room lights now work from the wall switch.
The five modules are bolted them together with 1/4" carriage bolts. The Masonite backdrops were replaced on the first two I built, new backdrops were cut and fastened to the other three modules. (The backdrop panel with the brown at the top was intended to be installed with that side against the module but the panels fit together better by flipping the panel over. The modules are currently in place and leveled individually and in relation to each other. I have one more module to bring into the room. It needs some revision to the leg assemblies to allow it to fit flush to the wall. I tried to hold true to the adage, "measure twice, cut once", but failed on the construction of this one. Truth be told, I ended up reworking a couple of the other modules as well, moving one leg that blocked a wall outlet.
I still have more to finish on the room remodel. I reused as many of the baseboards as possible, but had to cut, stain, and finish some new boards for the ones that could not be salvaged. I am waiting for the polyurethane to dry on the baseboards I cut to fit near the door so I can install them, hopefully within the next day or two. I also have to cut, sand, stain, and polyurethane the baseboards for inside the closet. The bifold closet doors have to be shortened to fit the opening and floor hardware replaced.
"Finished" room view is from the doorway, the black on the left edge is the door. I stood inside the closet for the second shot, third shot is again from the doorway.
Jerry,
You have been on quite the journey with the layout and lighting. I also went through several months of "How to light" my layout. Hard to believe that was 20+ some years ago. I also read where the fluorescent lighting contributed to fading of structures and scenery. I invested in the fluorescent light covers to reduce the fading.
I did notice the covers reduced the light in the layout room so I got rid of the tube covers and did over a long period notice fading of scenery and structures.
I decided to "invert" my fluorescent light fixtures and hide them in a valance. I painted the ceiling a gloss white to reflect the lighting. This has worked wonderfully for me and I've noticed no fading over the past 8 years.
Below is how I solved my lighting issues. This is referred to as "ambient lighting".
My two cents worth.
And, to add, your room looks great with respect to your lighting.
Tom ;D
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020321180944.jpeg)
Hey Tom:
WOW!!!!!! what a great looking RR.
Karl
Jerry nice job on that room. I see how easily it can be converted back to the bedroom.
Looking forward to your next phase!
Jerry
The room looks great Jerry.....looking forward to seeing the modules come together. :)
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 02, 2021, 06:11:20 PM
Jerry,
You have been on quite the journey with the layout and lighting. I also went through several months of "How to light" my layout. Hard to believe that was 20+ some years ago. I also read where the fluorescent lighting contributed to fading of structures and scenery. I invested in the fluorescent light covers to reduce the fading.
I did notice the covers reduced the light in the layout room so I got rid of the tube covers and did over a long period notice fading of scenery and structures.
I decided to "invert" my fluorescent light fixtures and hide them in a valance. I painted the ceiling a gloss white to reflect the lighting. This has worked wonderfully for me and I've noticed no fading over the past 8 years.
Below is how I solved my lighting issues. This is referred to as "ambient lighting".
My two cents worth.
And, to add, your room looks great with respect to your lighting.
Tom ;D
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020321180944.jpeg)
Tom,
Thanks for looking in and leaving your nice comment. As you said, I did a lot of research and would have preferred to use LED fixtures to avoid fading. However, the shadows thrown from similar shop light style LED lights were very harsh, most likely due to the low ceiling in the room. I did, however "over light" the room based on formulas I found for calculating lumens of light based on room size and purpose. I'm fairly confident that adding the sleeves to my fluorescent tubes won't negatively impact the overall room lighting. And, as I have mentioned before, I wanted inexpensive fixtures that would easily allow the room to be converted back into a bedroom. Unhook the lights, remove the hooks, patch the holes in the ceiling, put the ceiling light fixture back up, and presto, back to a bedroom.
I love the shot of your layout, really helps put in perspective all the wonderful scenes that you post as individual photos. I hope that someday I can make the trip to see your layout in person.
Quote from: postalkarl on March 03, 2021, 03:10:17 AM
Hey Tom:
WOW!!!!!! what a great looking RR.
Karl
Karl,
You got that right! Tom's layout is absolutely beautiful!
Quote from: Jerry on March 03, 2021, 08:19:34 AM
Jerry nice job on that room. I see how easily it can be converted back to the bedroom.
Looking forward to your next phase!
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks for your kind words. I hope to get the layout in place before the weather warms up next week and I (re)turn to outside work.
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 03, 2021, 08:37:54 AM
The room looks great Jerry.....looking forward to seeing the modules come together. :)
Thanks Greg.
As I'm sure you know, remodeling an old house comes with its own set of challenges. I got the leg on the last module reworked yesterday so it will now fit flush against the wall. Stay tuned.
When I bought this place (back in 1975) the heating duct for the upstairs bedroom actually ran up inside the wall. It stuck into the room 4" from the wall and was two foot wide. Better still, it was wrapped with asbestos. I decided the best approach was to tuck it behind the door where it would be less intrusive. This has never been an issue until I wanted to put my layout in the room. I decided the extra 12" of track I could get behind the door was worth the effort to build the benchwork around the enclosed ductwork.
I used some aluminum angle from Lowe's to fasten the backdrop corners to keep everything looking neat. I used the same technique for the backdrops on the two corner modules at the far end of the room. The angles were fastened to the Masonite with construction adhesive.
Hey Jerry great idea. An some nice work!
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks. I was looking for a way to secure the corners that still allowed me to have the backdrop as tight against the wall as possible.
This "filler" piece of the backdrop took three tries (and two pieces of scrap) to get it right. The problem is that the backdrop on the corner module to the right was cut incorrectly when I built that module. Looking at it now it seems obvious the top isn't level, nor is the end by the window plumb. That made fitting the one next to it a challenge since it was marked on the front but had to be cut from the back so not to chip the finish on the front when making the cut. FWIW, the backdrop is purposely lower to allow me easy access to the window latch. That is the window I will use for a fan to cool the room in the summer.
Hey Jerry:
Looks good to me. It's A shame you have to cover up that beautiful window..
Karl
Quote from: postalkarl on March 11, 2021, 12:27:33 PM
Hey Jerry:
Looks good to me. It's A shame you have to cover up that beautiful window..
Karl
Karl,
I'm tall enough to see outside over the backdrop in front of the window. I don't intend to leave the blinds open often because I'm concerned about sunlight fading colors on the layout. FWIW, I initially intended to build a 6" wide removable piece to cross in front of the window. After some thought I realized I would be better off by bolting a piece in place to help keep the layout fastened solidly together. At that point I started checking how wide I could make that section and still easily open the window. After some experimentation I decided to go with an 18" wide piece as that allowed me to easily reach the track in the rear corners of both modules.
Jerry,
Decided to purchase a ticket, grab a coach seat, and settle in for a scenic ride on the Delaware & Northern RR...
Keep the photos coming...
Tommy
Tommy,
Thanks for stopping in. A coach seat is about as good as it gets, no chair cars or other luxury accommodations on this short line.
The backdrops are painted. Time for the track layers to get to work and get this thing ready for some trains.
Jerry,
Very nice room space. I like how you added the back drop, turned out nice.
Tom ;D
J~,
Coming along nicely sir! I like how you've overcome certain challenges throughout this whole process. Keep up the great work here and look forward to the next process. Beautiful!
Thanx Thom...
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 13, 2021, 09:01:18 AM
Jerry,
Very nice room space. I like how you added the back drop, turned out nice.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm planning to use photos printed from a commercial backdrop disc once I have a better idea of where I want my horizon line and have made some decisions on where I will have hills, etc.
Quote from: tct855 on March 13, 2021, 09:23:54 AM
J~,
Coming along nicely sir! I like how you've overcome certain challenges throughout this whole process. Keep up the great work here and look forward to the next process. Beautiful!
Thanx Thom...
Thom,
Thanks for the nice comment. There are definitely some challenges and a lot of compromises to get even a portion of what I want to model to fit into this space. IMO everything has been worth the effort as I see progress being made.
I have the track laid on the Shaverville side of the layout. It was relatively easy because I had already finished the town portion on two of the modules. They're the ones with the brown painted foam. I had to replace some pieces of track that were removed when I separated those two modules. (They were set up in the corner of the dining room last winter.) The area inside the loop will eventually be a wood acid factory. That's a long term project based on the size of the undertaking and will be almost completely scratch built. It will probably be the last thing finished on the layout, assuming of course that I do manage to finish it.
I also shot a photo of some of the "tools" I have found most useful in the layout construction. My little shop vac is great. It is so small and light it is easy to use on both the floor and the layout. The roll around cart helps keep tools and parts close at hand as well as helping to keep a lot of stuff off the layout itself. I used an old cup hook to hang the Dremel tool under the layout. It is easy to leave the tool itself hanging on the hook and use the flex shaft to cut track to length. I have a hook on the other side of the aisle as well. You can also see the power strip mounted on one of the leg braces. There's one of those on the opposite side of the aisle, too. The power strips make it easy to plug in anything without crawling under the layout to reach a wall outlet. A plus is that I can use the switch on the power strips to shut off power to everything plugged into the strips especially my power packs. Two other things that make construction easier on my old bones are a step stool with large steps with lots of standing space (Harbor Freight) that make it easy for me to fasten track near the back of the 30" wide layout sections. The second is a rolling mechanics seat I use for working under the layout, especially useful for running wire.
Hey Jerry:
Looks like you're off to A good start. I'm following along.
Karl S
Great start Jerry.....your neatness is putting some of us to shame. ;D ;D ;D
Jerry,
Very nice start indeed. You have all the necessary tools right handy. I'm looking forward to this build.
Tom ;D
Morning Jerry what a great start. For sure I'll be following along on your adventure.
Will there be a farm & cows or do have enough of that in real life?? :)
Jerry
Quote from: postalkarl on March 16, 2021, 08:46:54 AM
Hey Jerry:
Looks like you're off to A good start. I'm following along.
Karl S
Thanks, Karl. Seems like it took forever to get the bench work done. Hopefully with track laying started things will proceed smoothly.
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 16, 2021, 09:33:17 AM
Great start Jerry.....your neatness is putting some of us to shame. ;D ;D ;D
Greg,
Trust me, when I am laying track it becomes somewhat of a mess. Still, it is easy to pick up after because I have the cart and a set of old bookshelves under the yard portion of the layout. I've found having some storage space helps keep the top of the layout cleaner. This is a self defense mechanism because when it gets messy I cannot find my tools. ;D
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 16, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Jerry,
Very nice start indeed. You have all the necessary tools right handy. I'm looking forward to this build.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks. I learned about keeping my tools on hand and my steps in order by following your thread.
Quote from: Jerry on March 17, 2021, 09:11:50 AM
Morning Jerry what a great start. For sure I'll be following along on your adventure.
Will there be a farm & cows or do have enough of that in real life?? :)
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks for the kind words. I wish I had the space for lots of farms on the layout. Alas, right now I only have spots picked out for a couple. Of course I do have feed mills and creameries as a consolation. ;D
hey Jerry:
You are quite welcome.
Karl
Quote from: jerryrbeach on March 17, 2021, 01:38:44 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 16, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Jerry,
Very nice start indeed. You have all the necessary tools right handy. I'm looking forward to this build.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks. I learned about keeping my tools on hand and my steps in order by following your thread.
Jerry,
Good one, cause I can never find anything I need when I need it. ;D ;D ;D
Tom 8)
Well, the only way I know to 'find my tools' is to have several of the most commonly used ones, so there's a reasonable chance I can find -1 of my 4- hammers :-) :-)
dave
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 17, 2021, 01:50:10 PM
Quote from: jerryrbeach on March 17, 2021, 01:38:44 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 16, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Jerry,
Very nice start indeed. You have all the necessary tools right handy. I'm looking forward to this build.
Tom ;D
Tom,
Thanks. I learned about keeping my tools on hand and my steps in order by following your thread.
Jerry,
Good one, cause I can never find anything I need when I need it. ;D ;D ;D
Tom 8)
You must be able to find them every once in a while. Either that or you're able to build an amazing layout without using tools! ;D ;D ;D
PS: If you can't find your level, check back through your thread. I've seen lots of photos of it! ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: deemery on March 17, 2021, 02:16:47 PM
Well, the only way I know to 'find my tools' is to have several of the most commonly used ones, so there's a reasonable chance I can find -1 of my 4- hammers :-) :-)
dave
Dave,
I have more than one of several tools, and if I cannot find one, I probably cannot find the spares either. That's why I try to pick up often and put the tools back where they belong. The older I get, the harder it is to find any of the four hammers if I do not make it a point to clean up throughout any project, rather than waiting until the end when I have managed to misplace all four.
Quote from: jerryrbeach on March 17, 2021, 01:37:14 PM
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 16, 2021, 09:33:17 AM
Great start Jerry.....your neatness is putting some of us to shame. ;D ;D ;D
Greg,
Trust me, when I am laying track it becomes somewhat of a mess. Still, it is easy to pick up after because I have the cart and a set of old bookshelves under the yard portion of the layout. I've found having some storage space helps keep the top of the layout cleaner. This is a self defense mechanism because when it gets messy I cannot find my tools. ;D
I really try to keep things in their proper places Jerry, but most of the time I get busy with building a structure, it looks like a smart bomb came in thru the window 5 minutes after I start.....but I still keep trying to stay organized. ::)
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 19, 2021, 08:44:03 AM
Quote from: jerryrbeach on March 17, 2021, 01:37:14 PM
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 16, 2021, 09:33:17 AM
Great start Jerry.....your neatness is putting some of us to shame. ;D ;D ;D
Greg,
Trust me, when I am laying track it becomes somewhat of a mess. Still, it is easy to pick up after because I have the cart and a set of old bookshelves under the yard portion of the layout. I've found having some storage space helps keep the top of the layout cleaner. This is a self defense mechanism because when it gets messy I cannot find my tools. ;D
I really try to keep things in their proper places Jerry, but most of the time I get busy with building a structure, it looks like a smart bomb came in thru the window 5 minutes after I start.....but I still keep trying to stay organized. ::)
Greg,
I hear you! Keeping the layout room organized is a piece of cake compared to keeping my modeling desk organized. I use a couple old coffee cups with chipboard in the bottom of them to hold my knives, tweezers, etc. Like you, though, shortly after I start I'm digging under walls, etc., trying to find my tools. Either that, or the work space shrinks to the point where I cannot lay a wall flat. That's when I stop and pick up everything and put the tools back so I can start over and make the same mess yet again. ;D ;D
My logic tells me that I need to lay the track in my yard next so that I can be certain everything fits as planned. I have done a rough layout for the town on the south side of the room and I know I will have enough space (barely) to get the passing siding and tail track to fit. Some compromise in the length of the tail track may be necessary, but this layout already has so many compromises in its track plan one more doesn't bother me. That said, here is a shot of the end of the yard where it fits against the wall behind the door.
Tracks are, from right to left in the photo. Ulster & Delaware main coming through the tunnel. This runs along the back wall and serves mostly as a visual prop. The track to its left is the interchange track where the D&N picks up and drops its cars. The next two stub end tracks are the extent of the D&N's yard tracks. The front two tracks are the D&N runaround / passing tracks. The short dead end off the second track from the table edge is the D&N caboose / passenger car track.
The tunnel portal and retaining walls are where I believe they will end up, the foam is a few chunks just propped in place to give me an idea of how the scenery might come together. Obviously the mountainside above the tunnel will rise well above the flat piece of foam now above the portal.
The portal and retaining walls are from Woodland Scenics. I shortened the height of the tunnel by about a half inch since I felt it was too tall for the scene. Retaining walls were shortened and the left over pieces will be used as the shorter retaining walls further from the portal. I laid the plaster castings flat on my shop bench and cut them carefully with a hacksaw. There was some minor breakage toward the bottom of the cuts, these were in the back of the castings and a few passes over coarse sandpaper cleaned everything up.
None of the track is fastened in place. I use a mix of old brass as well as new track to lay out what I envision to see how everything fits before anything is fastened in place. The weights are just to hold everything in place as I add more pieces.
Hey Jerry:
Looks like more progress. Keep the pics coming.
Karl
Looks like the cows are taking care of. ;) And you've spent some time at the RR.
Progress is a wonderful thing looking forward to the next post.
Jerry
Sorry, I have been delinquent in keeping upon the progress going on but I am back on the job. Things are moving along. Keep those photos coming. Looking good!
Jim D
Quote from: postalkarl on March 19, 2021, 05:20:13 PM
Hey Jerry:
Looks like more progress. Keep the pics coming.
Karl
Karl,
Thanks for checking in. I apologize for not getting back to your comment in a much more timely fashion.
Quote from: Jerry on March 22, 2021, 09:28:48 AM
Looks like the cows are taking care of. ;) And you've spent some time at the RR.
Progress is a wonderful thing looking forward to the next post.
Jerry
Jerry,
I apologize that it took this long to actually get back to this thread. Since I sold the cows a couple months ago I have made a good deal more progress. Stay tuned for much more regular updates.
Quote from: Jim Donovan on March 22, 2021, 10:34:21 AM
Sorry, I have been delinquent in keeping upon the progress going on but I am back on the job. Things are moving along. Keep those photos coming. Looking good!
Jim D
Jim,
You're just getting back on the job? Wow, that makes me a procrastinator to end all procrastinators. I apologize for not having responded to your comment in a more timely fashion. i have made significant progress, or so it seems to me in late 2021. Stay tuned for much more regular updates.
Back in mid-September 2021 I spent a couple rainy days putting down cork and laying track.
First pic is an overall view. Second pic is the town I have tenatively named Lumberville. The village of Arena on the prototype Delaware & Northern was originally called Lumberville. I have tried to find out when and why it was renamed but have not been successful. I installed the switches for the sidings but have postponed laying those tracks until I have planned what structures will be located along each spur.
The third pic is the yard showing it as less than complete.
Stay tuned as I have several more progress photos that need to be sorted prior to posting.
Nice progress Jerry.....the layout is really shaping up. 8)
Looking good Jerry.
Quote from: GPdemayo on January 06, 2022, 02:33:16 PM
Nice progress Jerry.....the layout is really shaping up. 8)
Greg,
Thanks for your comment, much appreciated.
Quote from: PRR Modeler on January 06, 2022, 03:35:33 PM
Looking good Jerry.
Curt,
I appreciate you stopping by. I'll be posting a couple more pics today.
I have a little better look at the bridge end of the layout as well as a photo of the layout after I laid the track and painted the foam. Apparently i neglected to shoot many progress photos as I was laying track. My bad...
Well I don't have any cows to sell never will! :)
But I still don't why it took me this long to take a look at this RR in progress. From what I see your doing a fine job!
Looking forward to the next update!!
Jerry
Jerry
Your layout is looking great - I'm looking forward to following your journey.
It looks great Jerry.
Quote from: Jerry on January 07, 2022, 02:17:56 PM
Well I don't have any cows to sell never will! :)
But I still don't why it took me this long to take a look at this RR in progress. From what I see your doing a fine job!
Looking forward to the next update!!
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks for stopping in and leaving a nice comment. That's right, blame it on the cows. I've decided that is my excuse for not making more progress. My neighbor went away for a four day weekend and you know who ended up having to do barn chores. That's it, I'd be much further along if I didn't have to take care of his cows. ;D ;D ;D [size=78%] [/size]
Quote from: S&S RR on January 24, 2022, 08:48:39 AM
Jerry
Your layout is looking great - I'm looking forward to following your journey.
John,
Thanks for taking a look. I feel like the progress on this layout is like riding the coach at the end of the milk train. It seems like it is taking forever. In my defense, I have spent a lot of time running trains on the part that is wired. I've done lots of exciting stuff like fixing joints, replacing sections of track and switches, fine tuning freight cars, etc. Unfortunately, those things don't offer much for progress photos.
Quote from: PRR Modeler on January 24, 2022, 09:20:50 AM
It looks great Jerry.
Curt,
Thanks for the kind words. There's not a whole lot to see yet, I cannot wait until I can actually start some scenery.
Here are a few shots of the layout after I got the brown paint on the pink and blue foam and picked up the drop cloth shown in an earlier photo.
Next up is a better shot of the bridge area. The crossover to the right of the bridges is easily the biggest compromise I made on the layout. I thought I had found a way to avoid it by running one track along the front edge of the layout, but that proved impractical when I laid out my "test track" to see what would fit realistically. So, enter the totally un-prototypical crossover.
The backdrops are simply taped in place as I try to visualize what would look best while giving the look and feel of a railroad in a valley.
I miscalculated when fastening the backdrop to the bridge section at the far end of the layout (from the entry door). It was about 6" lower than the other sections. That turned out to be a happy accident as it allowed me to easily see out the top of the window. After some thought, I built an "H" shaped section from scrap 1x3 lumber to use as a guide. Then I used my battery powered circular saw to cut down the height of the backdrop where it is in front of the other window.
Next I thought about what to do with the space near the closet. After some thought I decided that I could add a triangular piece to the end of the benchwork. I left clearance for the closet doors to open fully. This gave me enough footprint to add an industry to the planned siding. I had originally thought I would simply add a stone dock in that corner, but realized a structure would add far mor interest to that corner.
Once again, after some thought I decided to add some elevation to the part of the layout within the loop. I picked up some 1/2" foam from Home Depot, cut it to shape and glued it in place. I felt this was about the maximum height I could add and still have a manageable grade on the industrial spur that is inside this loop area.
Hey Jerry
Has there been any progress on this RR????
You have no cows to tend to so there should be some progress. ;D
Jerry
Jerry,
There has been some progress but definitely not as much as I had hoped to have made in the past couple years. I did not take many progress photos after the demise of the forum. I'll have to dig through my camera memory cards and see what I can find.
About a third of the backdrop photos have separated from the backdrop itself. It had taken me over a month to finalize the photos I wanted to use and how to blend them together. (I printed the photos out from Railroad Graphics discs.) That included the time to print them out, trim the white borders, and use spray adhesive to attach them to the backdrop. That happened some time ago and I pretty much lost my motivation to work on the layout after that happened.
At the moment the layout has proven the truth of what I was told is "Murphy's Third Law", i.e., horizontal surfaces tend to be covered in junk. I'll try to get it cleared off so I can take some more pics and get some kind of update together soon.
I have been trying to decide how to restart this thread after such a long time. I have gone through the thread a couple times. There are a lot of partial pages, missing photos, etc. However, the last couple pages seem to be complete, and most of what is gone seems to be basics, building the bench work, fastening down the foam, track, etc.
I have also gone through my photo memory cards and have transferred the photos I found into a folder on my computer. I have grouped them in order as much as possible. There are quite a few "holes" in the process, partly because I neglected to take any photos at times. After the forum went down, I felt no real incentive to get out the camera to document the progress. Also, I have a couple different cameras, three to be exact, and I used whatever one was handy, or had the best lens for the photo I took. Unfortunately, one of my memory cards became corrupted and I lost a great many photos when that happened.
Stay tuned for the reboot of the D&N version 1.0.
Morning Jerry
Looking forward to the start up!
Take your time will be here for the grand reopening!
Jerry
Quote from: Jerry on March 11, 2024, 10:28:13 AMMorning Jerry
Looking forward to the start up!
Take your time will be here for the grand reopening!
Jerry
Jerry,
This is kind of a rehash to start. This way people can look back if they wish, but if not, this is a reasonable starting point, at least I hope it is.
I'm going to start this update by posting some of the background information covered in the beginning pages of this thread.
The prototype railroad was originally organized in 1904 as the Delaware & Eastern, and trains were running over the line by 1906. The tracks connected with the New York, Ontario & Western in East Branch and with the Ulster & Delaware in Arkville, running for 37 miles along the East Branch of the Delaware River near the western edge of the Catskill Mountains. After an attempt to extend the railroad to Middleburg, NY and a connection with the Schoharie & Middleburg failed miserably leaving the railroad awash in debt, the D&E filed bankruptcy in 1910, and emerged as the Delaware & Northern. New York City bought the railroad in 1939 to allow them to build a dam at Downsville, NY, creating the Pepacton Reservoir to supply water to the city. Today over half of the Delaware & Northern roadbed resides at the bottom of the reservoir, along with the remnants of the villages and farms that once occupied the valley.
Due to the available space my layout is a freelance version of the railroad, nothing close to the dream layout I wanted that modeled the railroad in a far more prototypical manner. I have done my best to incorporate the spirit of the real D&N. My motive power is light 4-4-0's similar to those of the prototype. I have used scenes from the prototype as inspiration for the villages on the layout, as well as its industries, and some of its structures.
After spending some time thinking about how I might build a layout, I decided the best approach would be to construct something easy to disassemble and move in the future, should my living situation change. I have settled on a module or domino system for construction using separate tables, each with its own complete set of legs. This was done so that I can assemble or disassemble the layout by myself without worrying about how to support a section that lacks all four legs. I built it so the table tops detach from the leg assemblies for ease of relocation, thinking that would make it easier to move. Each table is connected to the adjoining table with carriage bolts. The modules measure 30" x 48", though I have added some additional width to some of the modules by using screws to attach these pieces to the basic modules. Each module has its own Masonite backdrop attached to the rear of the module using screws, so it can be easily removed from the module.
The layout is currently located in a spare bedroom on the first floor. The bedroom is roughly 8' wide by 17' long. The door is on one end of the narrow wall. There is a closet to the right of the door as you enter the room. Leaving access to the closet limits the layout to thirteen feet long along the right hand side of the room. The corner of the room behind the door has a chase for a heating duct. The distance from the door frame to the wall on the left side of the room (as you enter) is eighteen inches. I designed a small yard to fit along this space. This module is 18" x 5' (less a notch in the corner where the air duct chase is located).
The layout is wired for DC. Each module is wired separately using terminal blocks. Disassembling and moving the layout is done by disconnecting the wires connecting each section, and unbolting the modules from each other. I started initially with the layout in one corner of my dining room, then moved it into the bedroom where I added additional modules to fill the room.
The layout uses Atlas code 100 flex and sectional track. The turnouts are Atlas #4 or snap switches, most curves are 18" radius. I use Caboose Industries ground throws to operate the turnouts. I used this track because most of it was left over from a couple previous layouts. I also chose it because I was confident it would stand up well to the modules being taken apart and moved. Though I have only moved the modules once, this has proven to be true, at least so far.
Great to read a long, Jerry.
It's great that this site has reopened - but there has been very little activity. I'm afraid I'm not at all interested in discussing the weather or what I had for breakfast - which is unfortunately where all the activity is! I'm please you have just jumped back in. It's very easy to procrastinate, trying to get the story just so. I believe that threads such as this with daily or weekly updates are the future of the forum and the way to entice new members. If there is no new daily activity no one will want to join. I get disheartened when I post major updates and get no comments. I need to do another...
I'm wondering whether carriage bolts are the same as coach bolts - which is what I used to join my layout sections together? I'm guessing they are.
Keep up the updates - I'll be watching and reading along.
Cheers, Mark.
Mark,
Carriage bolts have a square shank next to a rounded head. The square shank pulls into the round hole "squaring it out". The theory is that the square shank holds the bolt while the nut is tightened or loosened. In my experience they work well as long as they do not rust. Then the square shank will turn in the hole while the nut stays rusted in place. Then you have a problem.
I have been trying to plan how to revive this thread in a way that did not require the readers to try to make sense of the first few pages that were corrupted prior to the initial demise of this forum. This is what I have decided to do, a rather lengthy intro to bring people up to speed, then proceed showing the progress photos I do have available.
Thanks, Jerry.
Yep. Same thing. I used 12mm coach bolts (carriage bolts). No doubt in England (hence New Zealand) they were known as coaches, in the USA carriages.
Cheers, Mark.
Just went through the last few pages , will be following along and hope to see some of your progress.
Jan,
Thanks for checking out the thread. There are some pretty big gaps in the photos. I hope there will be enough continuity for people to follow along reasonably well.
With the basic background information out of the way, I thought the next logical step would be to post some shots showing the basic layout configuration as well as the mainline track. That is, of course, if a short line railroad can be said to have a main line.
I've never really been able to do a decent job with the photo captions on this site. Rather than make myself completely crazy, I'll explain the photos as part of the post itself, and trust everyone to follow along. I know none of you can hear me screaming at my computer when I cannot get it to do what I want, you'll just have to trust me when I tell you I am a professional in that regard.
If something is not clear, I'll do my best to clarify, and answer any questions you might have. Two of the photos are taken from near the entry door. The bedroom closet is to the right of the entry door, and the space at the end of the loop in the first photo is to allow access to the closet. The third photo is taken looking toward the door so you can get an idea of the yard. These photos were posted earlier in the thread, so don't be surprised if they look familiar.
Looks good Jerry, lots of space for some neat scenes..... 8)
Clever to paint the room the sky color. Sturdy appearing benchwork as well. Looking forward to your progress on the layout.
Jeff
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 12, 2024, 09:49:12 AMLooks good Jerry, lots of space for some neat scenes..... 8)
Greg,
Believe it or not, even at this early stage of construction I was referring to photos from the prototype and figuring out how I might build similar scenes into the layout.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on March 12, 2024, 10:27:10 AMClever to paint the room the sky color. Sturdy appearing benchwork as well. Looking forward to your progress on the layout.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff. Previous layouts had much lower backdrops and I noticed when I took a photo I saw how distracting it was to have a green or yellow wall that was a distraction from the backdrop.
Let's start moving forward. I think anyone that constructs a layout finds things they wish they had done differently during construction. When I initially planned the layout I thought building it on one inch foam would allow me enough depth to have some depressed scenery in the area of the tracks. After beginning to add some of the terrain features in the photos I realized that building on two inch foam would have allowed me to have a broader range for elevation changes when I began building scenery.
The first photo shows when I really started to think about what I might do to change the layout as built form a mid-western prairie layout into something ore resembling the northeast. You can also see one of the small additions I made to the side of one of the modules. I did that partly to obtain more real estate for the layout, but equally important was the fact that by adding some curved sections it made the layout "flow" in the room and look larger than its actual size.
The second and third photos show the small hills I made in the far corners of the layout from the door, as well as the cuts the track passed through. On a small layout I believe it is especially important for the train to disappear from sight as it traverses the layout. In my opinion, losing sight of the train, even briefly, adds to the feel of the train passing through the scenery, and helps disguise the layout's small size.
Looking good, Jerry.
Quoteby adding some curved sections it made the layout "flow" in the room and look larger
Interestingly, by doing this and taking real estate away it still makes the layout appear larger.
QuoteIn my opinion, losing sight of the train, even briefly, adds to the feel of the train passing through the scenery, and helps disguise the layout's small size.
Agree totally. And its fun to do! I have immense fun playing around with tunnel entrances, blocks of polystyrene and rock castings!
Cheers, Mark.
Jerry,
Happy to see this thread back up and running. You've been busy and I love the look of the track plan.
Looking forward to more.
Tom
There you go! Glad to see your making progress and looking forward to the new additions you make.
Jerry
Quote from: Mark Dalrymple on March 14, 2024, 11:32:31 PMLooking good, Jerry.
Quoteby adding some curved sections it made the layout "flow" in the room and look larger
Interestingly, by doing this and taking real estate away it still makes the layout appear larger.
QuoteIn my opinion, losing sight of the train, even briefly, adds to the feel of the train passing through the scenery, and helps disguise the layout's small size.
Agree totally. And its fun to do! I have immense fun playing around with tunnel entrances, blocks of polystyrene and rock castings!
Cheers, Mark.
Mark,
I only have one tunnel to play around with, and it wasn't what I really wanted but the lack of space in the corner pretty much dictated its use rather than the (prototype) through truss bridge I wanted to use where the U&D mainline entered the layout to give me an interchange track for operational purposes.
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 15, 2024, 11:42:06 AM Jerry,
Happy to see this thread back up and running. You've been busy and I love the look of the track plan.
Looking forward to more.
Tom
Tom,
Thanks for looking in. I am quite a bit further along than what you see here. I'm trying to get caught up to where the layout is at the moment. It was a challenge to figure out how to get a reasonably long run into such a small space and be able to have some switching for freight cars. The passing sidings are much shorter than I wanted, but with small engines and short trains I think it will work out. There are not a lot of photos of the prototype, but none I have found show more that seven or eight cars trains.
Quote from: Jerry on March 15, 2024, 12:53:04 PMThere you go! Glad to see your making progress and looking forward to the new additions you make.
Jerry
Jerry,
I wasn't sure it would be worth it to re-start this thread since I didn't take a lot of photos when the forum was unavailable. Thanks for your encouragement to post the photos I do have.
The first photo shows the northwest corner of the layout, another way to describe it is it is the right corner furthest from the entry door.
The other photos show the hill in the corner of the layout in front of the closet door. I felt I needed to do something to break up the end of the loop track so people could not see the train make a 180 degree turn. I have thought about putting a water powered mill in the right hand corner in front of the covered bridge in that small open triangular spot. I also have been considering using that corner for a bluestone dock. The prototype D&N had several along its length, and in fact, shipped large quantities of bluestone to NYC for use in sidewalks and building construction.
I have never seen a single photo of a covered bridge across a railroad track, but I felt I needed more of a view block that a truss bridge offered. Plus, and a big plus, if it works for George Sellios, how can I go wrong?
I look forward to seeing what you do with the landscapping.
Nice view block. Looking forward to your progress.
Jeff
Looking good, Jerry.
The view down the curving road into the township is great. Can you manipulate (rotate clockwise) the covered bridge to give a view through the bridge to the curved road and township behind? Alternatively, cutting into the hill a bit to the left of the bridge to allow that view.
Cheers, Mark.
Quote from: PRR Modeler on March 18, 2024, 10:52:13 AMI look forward to seeing what you do with the landscapping.
Curt,
You'll need some patience because I have barely started to do scenery in one corner.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on March 18, 2024, 11:15:09 AMNice view block. Looking forward to your progress.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff.
The bridge isn't as good a view block as I had hoped it would be. The layout is roughly 45" off the floor to track level. I planned it so I could work on it while standing on the floor. That hasn't turned out to be the case, as I use a step stool constantly. had I realized I would need to use a step stool to work comfortably, I would have raised the layout 3-5". That's the old 20/20 hindsight. Still, it does somewhat disguise the fact the track runs along the wall at the back of the layout.
Quote from: Mark Dalrymple on March 18, 2024, 03:12:03 PMLooking good, Jerry.
The view down the curving road into the township is great. Can you manipulate (rotate clockwise) the covered bridge to give a view through the bridge to the curved road and township behind? Alternatively, cutting into the hill a bit to the left of the bridge to allow that view.
Cheers, Mark.
Mark,
Honestly, I never thought to try that. I did as you suggested but it really did not allow me to look through the bridge into the town. (I assume that is what you were thinking.) The curve in the road kept me from seeing more than a small piece of the town.
Also, moving it meant the viewer could see the now completely exposed track that runs along the back wall next to the backdrop. Originally I had planned to put a stone dock in the corner in front of and below the bridge. Since I was fortunate enough to find an FSM MacKenzie Milling kit for a reasonable price, I now want to put it in that corner. I used 1" foam on top of 1/2" plywood when I built my modules. That kit needs more than one inch of depth below the tabletop for the water wheel and the basement. That little corner piece with the unpainted backdrop is simply screwed to the end of that module.fastened to the end of the module. My plan is to lower it an inch, and add another inch of foam, thus giving me the necessary depth for the kit. This is another of the 20/20 hindsight things. If I had used 2" foam I could have put that kit almost anywhere.
I do like your suggestions, I have learned a great deal from you on placing structures to maximize sight lines.
Now in some ways we're hitting the wall as far as photos. Once I finished adding some foam to have some change in elevations, I stopped taking photos. No forum, so no photos, at least that is my excuse.
In some ways that is not a big deal, I plastered some scupltamold on top of the foam to fill the cracks between the layers of foam. Then I brushed some brown latex paint over that. Here's the one shot I seem to have taken. This also shows where I extended the filler section at the end of the room that spans the gap between the modules on each side of the room. I did that to give me a little more room to develop the river I use to provide somewhat of a break between scenes.
I did have one of my photo cards get corrupted not long ago. I believe there were quite a few photos of the layout construction on that card and I'll try to remember to explain why I believe that in the next post.
Great progress Jerry, thanks for posting..... 8)
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 21, 2024, 09:40:51 AMGreat progress Jerry, thanks for posting..... 8)
Greg,
My progress has been way slower than I anticipated when I started this journey. I lost the desire to work on the layout for an extended period of time. Stay tuned for more on that...
When I decided to build a modular style layout I had to decide how to approach my backdrop. I had a quantity of Masonite on hand, so using it for the backdrop was an easy choice. After some thought I decided to attach the backdrop to each individual module using some screws. The biggest challenge was getting both ends of each backdrop piece cut perfectly square so it would sit tightly against the backdrops of the adjoining modules. The cuts not only had to be square, the pieces had to be mounted carefully to the back of each module so the ends of the backdrop were plumb when the module was level.
With the backdrop panels in place I had to decide how to finish the backdrop. I have little artistic talent, so I knew painting anything more than a light blue sky was out of the question. I considered buying a one piece commercial backdrop designed to represent the area of upstate NY I am modeling. I ruled this out because I could not justify the expense of purchasing this type of backdrop only to cut it into four foot pieces. I had previously used a LARC Products disc to print off backdrop photos for some small modules I had built. That seemed to me like the best approach, so I browsed the LARC website and ordered another disc that offered a couple groups of photos that I thought would work on my backdrop.
I started by printing off enough photos to fill the length of the backdrop. I taped them to the backdrop to see how they fit what I was trying to model. I also needed to see how the various groups of photos looked together. One of the biggest challenges was the transition from one group of photos to the next.
Below are three photos showing some of the backdrop photos I printed out from the LARC disc taped to the Masonite. When I had the photos in an order I thought I liked I would leave them up for a few days. I would assess how well they matched the changes in elevation. I also wanted to see how well the different photo groups would look when they transitioned from one group of photos to another. I took numerous photos of my backdrop with the LARC photos taped in place. Almost every time I moved some photos, printed additional photos, or changed them around in order I would take photos of the layout. I would send the photos to my son for his opinion. Apparently the bulk of those photos were on the memory card that was corrupted, because these are the only ones I could find. On a positive note, this means anyone viewing this thread is spared looking at all those "test" photos.
I'll bet you used a LOT of printer ink. I need a small background piece for the area of the layout I'm working on. I'll look thru the LARC site and see if anything would fill the space. Thanks for posting this.
Jeff
Quote from: jerryrbeach on March 23, 2024, 08:07:38 AMQuote from: GPdemayo on March 21, 2024, 09:40:51 AMGreat progress Jerry, thanks for posting..... 8)
Greg,
My progress has been way slower than I anticipated when I started this journey. I lost the desire to work on the layout for an extended period of time. Stay tuned for more on that...
You're not alone Jerry, I really want to get started building all those kits I have, but haven't gotten motivated to get going for a number of years and the layout has been collecting dust for even longer..... :(
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 23, 2024, 10:51:47 AMQuote from: jerryrbeach on March 23, 2024, 08:07:38 AMQuote from: GPdemayo on March 21, 2024, 09:40:51 AMGreat progress Jerry, thanks for posting..... 8)
Greg,
My progress has been way slower than I anticipated when I started this journey. I lost the desire to work on the layout for an extended period of time. Stay tuned for more on that...
You're not alone Jerry, I really want to get started building all those kits I have, but haven't gotten motivated to get going for a number of years and the layout has been collecting dust for even longer..... :(
I have quite the same problem
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on March 23, 2024, 10:43:10 AMI'll bet you used a LOT of printer ink. I need a small background piece for the area of the layout I'm working on. I'll look thru the LARC site and see if anything would fill the space. Thanks for posting this.
Jeff
Jeff, I did go through a couple cartridges of both black and color ink. I did some financials after finishing up and I calculated that including the disk, ink, cardstock, and adhesive I spent about $200 to print and apply the photos to the backdrop. I have quite a few additional photos that I printed out but did not use for various reasons, that are included in that cost. Those are included in the cost. To put this in perspective, my layout has a little less than 40 feet of backdrop. I did a little research into buying a one piece printed backdrop from a commercial supplier. The cost depended a great deal on what material the photos were printed on, and how involved it was to set up the photos for printing. The least expensive one I found was in the neighborhood of $600.
Greg & Jan,
Since we've got quotes within quotes on both your posts, I'm going to start fresh. My lack of motivation to work on the layout (or even model) was triggered by so many of the photos coming loose from the Masonite backdrop. The layout sat completely untouched through the winter of 2022-23. I did not model much of anything for a long time. Finally I dragged myself out of the hole I had fallen into and started working on some freight cars. That was a struggle, and there were still days, and sometimes a week or two, when I did almost no modeling.
I'm not sure where I found the motivation to start modeling regularly again. I did make a concerted effort to immerse myself in as much model related material as possible. I watched YouTube videos, chased down Facebook groups, and rejoined a railroad historical society. I was hopeful that I might find something that excite me enough to overcome the inertia and start building something. I can tell you that in my case working on a small project and seeing it come together helped. One small success led me to continue (in fits and starts) to reach for another small amount of success, and so on. It was a long road, and it seemed more like work than a hobby until I began to once again enjoy both the process as well as the end result.
The rebirth of the forum and my desire to contribute to this group as we try to rebuild so much that was lost has also helped motivate me. I'm sure that both of you, as well as many others facing the same issue, will find a way to move forward in a positive direction.
I spend most of my time in the summer outside, and my modeling usually consists of smaller projects that can be completed relatively quickly. I rarely work on the layout, and I might go a week or two without going into the layout room. I noticed one day that a couple of the individual backdrop photos had started to peel away from the backdrop. I did not think much of it until somewhat later I saw that fully one third of the photos were partially off the backdrop. They were not only coming unglued, they were curling up as they came loose.
I was unhappy to see this happen, but I knew I could print new photos if these could not be saved. What I did not realize until I examined the photos closely was that the center of the photos was still firmly stuck to the backdrop. I was unable to remove the photos without ruining not only the photos, but also damaging the Masonite backdrop. I was then faced with trying to figure out how to remove the curl from the 50# card stock and re-attaching the photos to the backdrop.
I had used some spray adhesive when I originally fastened the photos to the backdrop. I used a wall paper roller to make sure the photos were tight against the Masonite, and there were no air bubbles or places that were not tight to the backdrop itself. I began to think about what I might use that would be strong enough to hold the curled card stock to the Masonite. It could not be something that would cause the photos to expand or stretch. I needed to be able to apply it evenly to the backs of the photos. I ruled out anything in an aerosol can due to over spray issues. I could not seem to come up with any sort of a solution after an extensive time consuming search.
I realized I was simply stuck with a mess and I could not figure out how to repair the damage. I was afraid my only solution might be to unbolt the modules so I could get behind them to replace the Masonite backdrop itself, and then start over with another set of photos. I would not even walk into the layout room because it was so depressing. My motivation to work on the layout was gone. The layout sat completely untouched through the winter of 2022-23. It was a long time before I began to wander into the layout room and once again search my brain for a solution but nothing I thought of seemed feasible.
A few months ago Dave Emery posted photos of a building he had completed. He mentioned that he had used an adhesive called "Back Scene" to fasten the sign to the front of the building rather than white glue. He also indicated that it was designed for fastening backdrop photographs to the backdrop. I started researching this as a possible answer to my problem. I found this was a British product, and had limited availability in the US. I ordered a bottle from Hobbylinc (no affiliation other than as a customer), to see if it would solve my problem.
After reading the instructions I brushed it onto the back of one of the least curled photos and pressed it against the backdrop. It curled away from the backdrop with little delay. I used a wallpaper roller and pressed it with my hand until it seemed to stick. However I noticed it again came off the backdrop within a couple minutes. Obviously, if I was going to have any chance of success I needed to hold the photo against the backdrop for a longer period of time. I had a few smaller pieces of Masonite lying around. I grabbed one, pressed the smooth side against the backdrop and wedged it in place with some weights. I pulled it off several hours later and the photo stayed securely against the backdrop. It took me the better part of a week to ten days to get all the photos re-fastened to the backdrop. I do have some places where the Back Scene got onto the sky above the photos. I also have a couple places where I got a little on the front of the photos and the photos lost some of the ink, leaving the white card. None of this cannot be repaired easily with a little paint, or that cannot be hidden with scenery.
Thanks Jerry , maybe doing some of my backdrop anew is a good idea , and I can get the Deluxe products fairly easy, thanks for showing this product.
So good to see you back at this. I'll be following along.
I think we all get to that point of no work on the RR. But when it comes back it's kind of like a new day has stated again.
Jerry
Quote from: Janbouli on March 25, 2024, 03:39:29 PMThanks Jerry , maybe doing some of my backdrop anew is a good idea , and I can get the Deluxe products fairly easy, thanks for showing this product.
Jan,
That's a great product. I used a flat brush to apply it, you need a good coat, but try to get it on as evenly as possible and not too thick. if it is too thick it squeezes out and is difficult to clean up. I used a damp cloth, but I still have some spots on the sky where it left some marks. I'll get out my blue paint and get them touched up. It is really sticky, hard to get out of the brush as well as the microfiber cloth when cleaning up afterward. It can leave you with sticky fingers if you're not careful to keep it off your hands. I found leaving the brush in a jar of water with a little dish detergent and letting it soak for an hour or so made the cleanup easier.
Quote from: Jerry on March 26, 2024, 09:49:41 AMSo good to see you back at this. I'll be following along.
I think we all get to that point of no work on the RR. But when it comes back it's kind of like a new day has stated again.
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks for looking in. Most of what I've posted are the few photos I did take while the forum was down. Once I finish posting them I won't have as much material to share.
Hello Jerry, I hope that by catching up, as you say, with some stuff you did while the forum was down, now you can make some steady progress on your layout. This hobby is a place to relax and get away from the real world and spend some time in our own "little worlds". Looking forward to more of your work.
Quote from: nycjeff on March 26, 2024, 03:54:51 PMHello Jerry, I hope that by catching up, as you say, with some stuff you did while the forum was down, now you can make some steady progress on your layout. This hobby is a place to relax and get away from the real world and spend some time in our own "little worlds". Looking forward to more of your work.
Jeff,
I'm moving forward, though more slowly than I would like. After spending a lot of time contemplating the best approach, I'm starting to address the scenery in front of the backdrop. Right now I'm roughing in some land forms, with a very long way to go, even on my small layout.
As I mentioned before, when using individual backdrop photos I think the biggest challenge is getting them to fit together seamlessly. If you have purchased a lengthy one piece backdrop this is not going to be a problem you will need to address. If you are using photos that have already been stitched together by a computer, you may not face this issue, depending on the size of your layout in comparison to the length of the available photos.
However, if you are attempting to use more than one set or group of photos, blending the photos together is a challenge. In that case when planning the backdrop care must be taken to see that the colors match as closely as possible. The physical features also need to be constant, i.e., the height of the terrain and any trees or other features. I found matching colors to be the most difficult, as it is possible to raise and lower the hills or mountains to adjust the different heights of those land forms.
The photos I have chose to post show some of the places where I changed from one group of photos to another. As you can easily see, there are some pretty dramatic changes between photos. Just as a note, some groups of photos that are stitched together also show a color shift. I believe these are caused by both the lighting, as well as whether the photographer is able to shoot straight on, or at an angle to the landscape.
My plan from the beginning was to try to locate adjacent photos that experienced a color shift in a place where they could be camouflaged to some extent. One such location will be behind a church that sits on a slight rise, and has a large tree beside it. When the viewer's looking directly at the church, the color change between the two photos should be barely noticeable. But should the viewer peek behind the church, or even stand at an angle to the church, busted! I have similar partial view blocks planned for the other places where the photos don't match well. How successful will I be with this technique? Only time will tell.
Now, I'm going to give everyone reading this a trick I wish I had known before I embarked on designing and building this layout. I was watching a video of the late Jim Heidt's Norwood and St. Lawrence Railroad. It was immediately obvious to me that many of his backdrop scenes had been printed from some of the Larc Products discs. Jim was explained that if a viewer could see a train travel the length of the basement, it would seem that the train didn't travel very far. This is quite well known to the modeling fraternity. It is what he did to break up the distance using the landscape as view blocks that resulted in my "AHA" moment. He used a rock cut where the hill was the same height as the backdrop hills. On one side of the cut was the complete series of stitched together photos from the Larc disc. On the other side of the cut was a similar but different set of Larc backdrop photos. No worries about trying to blend the backdrop landscape from different sets of photos.
Why didn't I think of that. I have no idea. Can I do that now? Not really, as the track is too close to the backdrop to pull it off successfully. I would have to rip up at least fifteen feet of track, and probably closer to twenty feet. Then for it to work effectively, I would have to print and replace two thirds to three quarters of my existing backdrop photos. Doing that would damage the Masonite, so I would probably have to replace the existing backdrop. It is just something I have to live with and one of many things on my layout where I wish I had a "do-over".
I like the extra depth the photos give the scenes on the layout Jerry.....well done. 8)